World Cup Match 19 – England vs. West Indies

Sadly, the rain intervened once again yesterday with the India vs NZ match called off without a ball being bowled, though that only gave us more time to read Dmitri’s passionate and pugnacious piece, which gained some great traction including a retweet from Jim Maxwell. If you haven’t read it yet, then please click here, you won’t be disappointed. Of course, the piece did ruffle a few feathers within the journalistic community who seemed to take umbrage with the content, though not from the some of the excellent journalists who there are many, but from those who do not quite meet those standards. One can argue that one doth protest a little too much with regards to a couple of those comments flying around.

It does amuse me still that many in the various journalistic circles just do not get why we are we pull no punches in our assessment at times. They don’t get how 4 individuals who do not get paid (nor would we want to) are so passionate about the subject and won’t back down even when we are told to ‘pipe down’. They don’t understand how many (and not just us) can smell an ECB puff piece a mile off and that quite frankly, those who go down such a route are compromising the many excellent journalists out there, who are willing to speak their mind and are willing to criticize the ECB when they see fit. They also don’t understand how more and more individuals who are rightly concerned about where the game is going under the ECB’s watch refuse to be patronised or even worse, sneered at by those who claim to be bastions or patrons of the game. Those who are in positions of power are not willing to talk to the fans who they regard as the great unwashed, so naturally it is even more disappointing when those that do have access to them write something more akin to an ECB press release than a serious journalistic article questioning why the ECB continues with this white elephant in the face of huge opposition from the general public.

The thing is that game doesn’t belong to them, nor does it belong to the ECB or the ICC, it belongs to the fans and the players. Cricket would not exist without the fans. Without the fans there would be no TV deal that allows Tom Harrison to trouser £700k a year, nor would there be any money from gate receipts from overpriced international tickets or revenue from overpriced England merchandise. The ECB can hark that they have the best interest of cricket at heart, but when you lose the fans, then you lose the one thing you need to make cricket sustainable. Yet here we still are in the middle of a World Cup which only a select few can watch, reading and listening to various members of the ECB and those that would like a piece of it, talk about how the Hundred will be a great success and pointing to their  research as some sort of validation. Yes, the same research that they refuse to publish, when 99% of cricket fans in the UK want nothing of it. It’s laudable in a sense that they want to grow the game (if they really indeed do), but forcing a competition that was designed on the back of a fag package down the fans throats and then refusing to listen to those who have lined their pockets for years through forking out for Sky or going to matches is not just arrogant, it’s reckless. We know that there are many who agree with us and there are many who don’t, but we do this as a labour of love, no more, no less. If it means that we upset a few individuals who can’t deal with criticism, then so be it, at the end of the day it’s the opinion of 4 individuals who are passionate about the game we grew up with and love.

I could go longer, but I don’t want to flog a dead horse (unlike the ECB) and think you get the point here.

As for today’s game, the good news is that the weather seems fairly settled down in Southampton so we should see some of game, even if it isn’t the full 50 overs a side and for England this is where the competition really starts. The West Indies have looked a dangerous side for the whole tournament (and did when England last toured there) with a mixture of dangerous quick bowlers and batsmen who can take a game from you in double quick time. The West Indies were unlucky that the game against South Africa was rained off when they were in a strong position and in all reality, they should have beaten Australia when they had them on the ropes at 6 down for not many. Naturally the West Indies will hope that big Andre Russell is passed fit for the match as he is the type of player that can win a game on its own and from a purely entertainment point of view, I do hope he can play.

As for England, we have our own injury worries with Mark Wood yet again pulling up lame in training. It’s such a shame for Wood that every time he looks like he is getting going within the international arena, he picks up an injury that brings him back to square one. I hope for his sake that England don’t force him out there if he is not 100% fit. The other question will be if Moeen comes back into the side in place of one of the quick bowlers. In an ideal world, having 4 seamers and 2 front line spinners makes the attack feel naturally balanced; however with Moeen continuing to fail with the bat, then if it is seamer friendly, then I hope they go with the same set up they had against Bangladesh.

Here’s hoping for a good game and naturally feel free to post any comments or thoughts below:




60 thoughts on “World Cup Match 19 – England vs. West Indies

  1. Mark Jun 14, 2019 / 8:42 am

    Before the start of the World Cup I had India, Australia, England and New Zealand as my final four. I had WI & Pakistan as the two dark horses who might push one of the top four out.

    As England have already lost to one of those, namely Pakistan, a loss today will put huge pressure on the three games they have against my other semi finalists.

    The weather has so far helped England a bit with both Pakistan and WI dropping points against less fancied teams, but NZ probably picked up a point they may not have got against India if the match had it been played.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. dArthez Jun 14, 2019 / 10:30 am

    If England win today (and they had a good start), the group stages will consist of 3 more weeks of warmups before we finally have a match that matters.

    Cricket is probably the only sport in the world where the authorities are desperate to make the supporters die of BOREDOM before there is a match that matters.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Mark Jun 14, 2019 / 10:47 am

      Or pay large amounts of money?

      If England do win today, and India beat Pakistan on Sunday the top four will open up some clear blue water between themselves and the rest.


  3. dlpthomas Jun 14, 2019 / 12:36 pm

    With both Morgan and Roy injured, it would nice if we could wrap this up quickly.


  4. dlpthomas Jun 14, 2019 / 12:38 pm

    A fast Yorker would be nice.


  5. dlpthomas Jun 14, 2019 / 12:55 pm

    If only Wood and Archer can both stay fit…………..


    • Mark Jun 14, 2019 / 12:58 pm

      It’s all right, we have a secret weapon. He’s called Root!


      • dlpthomas Jun 14, 2019 / 1:16 pm

        Bowling “knuckle balls”!


  6. Metatone Jun 14, 2019 / 12:57 pm

    Obviously the Morgan/Roy injuries are worrying.

    All the same… who are these bowlers and what have they done with the English bowlers?

    Mind you, I presume the WI bowlers will be looking forward to giving it a go too.


  7. Metatone Jun 14, 2019 / 1:02 pm
    • Metatone Jun 14, 2019 / 1:02 pm

      roll eyes at the advert for a Sky Sports doc on KP


      • OscarDaBosca Jun 14, 2019 / 1:04 pm

        Just what I’ve seen.
        Nassar’s wallet comment re:IPL is somewhat unedifying


      • dlpthomas Jun 14, 2019 / 1:18 pm

        Foxtel just ran a short segment on KP’s one day career. Vaughan made the point that KP was right about the need for England players to get involved in the IPL and that this is why they have improved.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Mark Jun 14, 2019 / 2:09 pm

          I eagerly await Mr Andy Bull showing up here to to link to a piece he wrote in 2014/15/16/17 saying that KP was right about England players playing in the IPL, and Flower and Strauss where wrong.

          He might struggle because he seemed to have never heard of this site, so may get lost on the way. If you believe that, I have some swamp land in Mississippi I would like to sell you.

          I particularly enjoyed his brief visit yesterday as it demonstrated exactly why he fits in so well at The Guardian. Smug, supercilious, and condensing. Just like a chip of the old block!

          Liked by 1 person

      • LordCanisLupus Jun 14, 2019 / 1:48 pm

        As Yaphet Kotto says in Midnight Run, when his FBI agents interrupt his breakfast…

        “Is this going to upset me?”


    • thelegglance Jun 14, 2019 / 1:43 pm

      I don’t think kids will sit at home [and watch on TV], they get everything on tablets,” – Eoin Morgan.

      This has become a rote phrase to repeat with no context.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Sean Jun 14, 2019 / 1:45 pm

        At least that’s what Tom Harrison told me to say…


      • dlpthomas Jun 14, 2019 / 2:15 pm

        My worry would be that if the ratings weren’t great, people would argue there is no point in showing cricket on free to air TV rather than consider that it might take a bit of time to build up an audience.


        • thelegglance Jun 14, 2019 / 2:21 pm

          It’s not just a matter of being put out as free though, it needs to be somewhere obvious and visible in the wider sense. ITV4 picked up decent IPL viewing figures because it’s a known channel. That’s why the ECB were so desperate to get some coverage of the Hundred on the BBC rather than just saying to Sky they could put a few on Sky Mix.

          FTA is important, but FTA with market penetration is more important still.

          Liked by 2 people

          • thebogfather Jun 14, 2019 / 2:28 pm

            Exactly – if (and it’s a big if) the final was released away from Sky in the uk, then it must NOT be to a cable add-on/internet provider or some such. It must be on a freeview channel. I won’t be one of the main channels (Wimbledon/F1 etc) but must be ITV4 or suchlike. Anything else id but a faux gift to the great unwashed.

            Liked by 1 person

          • Metatone Jun 14, 2019 / 3:59 pm

            Also, if (say) it were to be an India vs Australia final, having been no build up then the lack of Eng will hit the viewing figures, it just will. People watch a WC final even when there’s no local team because they’ve gotten into the narrative of the tournament – but no hope of that here.

            Liked by 1 person

          • Tregaskis Jun 14, 2019 / 10:30 pm

            I presume the BBC was a preferred partner because of its multi-channel reach. I am less clear how much the BBC paid for the rights, how their successful bid compared with other FTA bids, and what influence it had on the new format by insisting on a ridiculously narrow broadcasting window. I mean, how was its influence so great as to change the entire format of the game yet get to broadcast so few games.


          • thelegglance Jun 14, 2019 / 11:00 pm

            Well. This always depends on how accurate the regular narrative is. But supposedly the BBC paid very little, the ECB being so desperate to get some exposure that they accepted a bargain basement bid.

            Whether the BBC had influence who knows. They deny it. The ECB brief that they did. Joy.

            The devil is in the nuance.


    • LordCanisLupus Jun 14, 2019 / 1:47 pm

      On the same day as the mens Wimbledon Final and the British Grand Prix are on BBC and Channel 4. For anyone to see them, they’d have to make it FTA. Try competing on one of the busiest sporting days of the year.

      Liked by 1 person

      • dArthez Jun 14, 2019 / 2:16 pm

        They might be lucky and have a washout on the 14th. Who will be looking for a freebie on the 15th?


      • Mark Jun 14, 2019 / 2:20 pm

        Is the World Cup being show free to air in India, and Australia? Are Indian subscription prices as high as they are here?


        • dlpthomas Jun 14, 2019 / 3:01 pm

          Selected games a re being shown on free to air in Australia. I suspect al of the finals will be shown.


          • thelegglance Jun 14, 2019 / 3:11 pm

            Which reminds me of how that straw man argument is used here – hardly anyone insists that all cricket should be on FTA here, any more than football is. But that there should have been some, and that it was stupid that they didn’t see that.

            Liked by 1 person

          • Mark Jun 14, 2019 / 3:37 pm

            Exactly! Anyone who suggests that maybe, just maybe some cricket should be on FTA and certain sections of the media goes crazy and says…..

            “ you have no idea, it would mean the financial collapse of cricket over night. Sky are angels…..blah blah”

            Nobody is saying that. But it might mean a little less from Sky, and there is the problem. Because the people at the top want the maximum big salaries.


        • dArthez Jun 15, 2019 / 6:17 am

          It is not on free to air in India. The costs are limited though. About $0.50 per channel for a month (you need two, just in case there are two games a gay). But the market is massively bigger, and different. Most people don’t own a television, and radio is still probably the most influential medium out there.

          But also, even if just one per cent of the Indian population watches (it is more than that) that is already 12 million people watching – more than England managed during the highs of the 2005 Ashes.


        • dArthez Jun 15, 2019 / 6:23 am

          And then there is also the option of Hotstar – free on mobiles / tablets (need internet for that, but internet is dirt cheap in India, cheapest in the world).

          I am guessing, that no such cheap option for tablets exists in England …


          • thelegglance Jun 15, 2019 / 6:59 am

            Not legally no. Though I’d be pretty sure those kids who watch everything on a tablet are more than aware of apps like Mobdro.


  8. thebogfather Jun 14, 2019 / 1:53 pm

    Caught a few minutes of TMS over the past three hours until I got home…. firstly (pass the sick bucket) the introduction by Aggers to Sir Alastair Cook on ‘his first commentary’ on a England game at the WC (pass the horse trough…) which was so cloying a first few convo’s that I thought the perceived ‘Love-In’ might even get a bit more physical (radio is great, even better than most TV, but the images it produces in the mind…lol).
    Secondly, and Aggers did this well, was the interview with Robin Smith.
    I love Judge, and his openness and the reality of the mental and personal issues he had (still has) was very revealing and honest. He obviously is promoting a new book, and thanked the likes of Foxy Fowler (whose honesty in books and tweets is great) and Tresco for their open evaluation in their own books and accounts.
    There was earlier, a convo between Judge and Harmy on Talksport which was even more intense, sadly I only caught it being repeated at 4:30am – with Harmy having had his own issues it was really captivating and i could relate to both having ‘Been There, maybe Still There’ myself.
    I wish him and everyone who may suffer these personal issues, all my best wishes too.

    Liked by 5 people

    • nonoxcol Jun 14, 2019 / 2:31 pm

      I bought the book today. I think Rob Smyth is a terrific long form writer – one of his long Guardian pieces on the 1989/90 WI tour was superb and I would imagine that tour might just come up in this book….

      I second what else you said. I’m slightly sad, though, that this story will be much lower in general profile than the “Royal Team Talk” on BBC TV last month. Now anything that gets people talking about mental illness, especially in the sporting environment, is to be applauded. But I think even many well-disposed people recoil from certain more complex, grinding, despairing, chronic aspects of the issue, particularly where self-destruction and self-reproach play such a large part. Prince William and some footballers saying “we need to talk more about things” comes across as pretty facile by comparison to stories of suicidal ideation or the wretched reality of genuine conditions and engagement with MH services.

      Hannah Jane Parkinson (“It’s not like a broken leg”) wrote quite brilliantly about this last year: I won’t link it here but anyone who needs to understand what I am talking about should start there.

      Meanwhile: Cook on an ODI commentary just called somebody “one-dimensional”. You have to laugh.

      Liked by 3 people

      • thebogfather Jun 14, 2019 / 4:02 pm

        I agree, that the ‘Royal Opening Up’ may have been flagged as ‘yes them too’ but in reality, such opining does in the end belittle the problems that many of us encounter without such favour or help.
        I could and should write so much more on this, but hey, it’s the CWC, and the moneyed obsession that exists should be our focal point here.
        Dmitri’s blasts and the subsequent mix of press squealing and press congratulation have been a wonderful reinvigoration of many topics expressed here and beyond for many a year.

        On another note, SirC has been much more eloquent and thoughtful than his fellow recent newbie on TMS (Anderson.) or some regulars (Tufnell, Swann and oh FFS Y – EJRB) – even a hint of worthwhile comment has been noted!


        • nonoxcol Jun 14, 2019 / 4:28 pm

          He sounds very relaxed and quite funny/self-deprecating, doesn’t he?

          Did you, however, catch the bit where Dagnall asked him how he’d captain the Windies when they were desperate for the first wicket? Put it this way, it was easy for the mind to wander back to Melbourne 2013….

          Liked by 1 person

  9. Mark Jun 14, 2019 / 2:41 pm

    That was tame from Bairstow. Just lobbed it up to the fielder. I know they have put on nearly a hundred but with the various injuries you don’t want to start a mini collapse.

    The run rate is nothing to worry about so that seemed a little careless.

    Woakes coming in at 3! Interesting.


    • Mark Jun 14, 2019 / 4:00 pm

      100 partnership for Woakes and Root. So that worked out pretty well.

      Can’t help thinking this match was won by England’s batting reputation. The WI gave away a lot of wickets trying to get a massive score.


    • Metatone Jun 14, 2019 / 4:03 pm

      Perhaps I’m catching being soft from one of the writers here, but while it was a mistake, I do think it’s fair for Bairstow to say “with a low total it’s important to keep playing for a high run-rate, going slow becomes a habit and turns you into Warner (or worse… Cook…)”


  10. Metatone Jun 14, 2019 / 4:13 pm

    Ok, I resisted saying it at the change of innings, to avoid jinxing it, but this victory belongs to the bowlers. The game was over after they got with WI out so cheaply.

    (It also was, as a result, one of the worst kinds of ODI game, where all the tension drains out long before the end.)

    Liked by 1 person

    • Sean Jun 14, 2019 / 4:26 pm

      When England are playing (and I haven’t forked out £75+ for a ticket), I’ll happily take that..


  11. Deep Purple Fred Jun 14, 2019 / 8:18 pm

    So Bull did the seagull routine yesterday. Flew in, shat over everything, and flew out again. I wish I hadn’t wasted my time responding to him.
    Reminds me a bit of Selvey’s “How dare you, sir” flouce at the Guardian when he shook the dust from his sandals BTL.
    I guess he was only here to fire a few shots and scarper.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Sean Jun 14, 2019 / 8:21 pm

      Not a huge surprise, though it did amuse me that he thought by posting some of his greatest hits, that we’d all magically forgive the rest of the rubbish he’s written over the years..

      Liked by 1 person

      • LordCanisLupus Jun 14, 2019 / 8:33 pm

        It amused me no end. It started with Russell in Australia. He used to be the guardian. “Someone” told Andy about my views and he pops on. And lo and behold, we got a Selvey. I don’t believe in coincidence. The old Guardian Mafia in full effect!

        Liked by 1 person

        • thebogfather Jun 15, 2019 / 10:42 am

          Hey, you’ll only be granted true Mafia horse-head in bed status when Don Selfeyi deigns to comment on your bilious blog postings in person…


      • Mark Jun 14, 2019 / 8:35 pm

        His attitude implied, that he didn’t know about this site made me think he was a complete dick.

        Now it may be that he genuinely has never heard of this site, but you would think someone claiming to be a major cricket writer of a national newspaper would be a little bit better informed of cricket blogs on the web.

        Or he was being a dick.

        Fred got the right word yesterday …”supercilious.” I’m sure you have to pass a supercilious test to work at the Guardian.


        • thelegglance Jun 14, 2019 / 9:25 pm

          Let’s just say the Guardian are very aware of this site.


      • Deep Purple Fred Jun 14, 2019 / 8:55 pm

        I clicked on a couple of the links he provided. They did indeed discuss the decline in cricket participation and the FTA issue. So, great that he put his finger on that in a few articles, but hardly addressing the point that the press has been ignoring or at times complicit in the root cause of this. And that this is just a symptom of the bigger problem, which is the way the commercialisation and growth of cricket has been managed.

        I don’t know where the insults he was referring to came from, I couldn’t find them, but I’m not surprised if those things have been said. Unfortunately, he didn’t really get to the underlying issues, and chose to take offence instead. (A senior journalist working in London for a global newspaper in the sports section gets offended someone is a bit rude to him? Jesus, I hope he manages to get by OK on the tube each day, those Londoners can be pretty rough!).

        Hadn’t thought about the Guardian mafia aspect, perhaps it was indeed that. Which would explain why he came looking for a fight rather than a discussion. I won’t bother next time.

        Liked by 2 people

        • quebecer Jun 15, 2019 / 12:57 am

          If it helps, Fred, I thought yours was a very good reply to Bull.


          • Rooto Jun 15, 2019 / 8:35 am

            And to think I nearly posted something a couple of days ago taking the biblical response to Bull’s article (“more joy in heaven over one sinner who repenteth” etc.). He’s taken my goodwill and pissed all over it.

            Liked by 1 person

          • Deep Purple Fred Jun 15, 2019 / 10:43 am

            Thanks guys. It was an interesting event, I think it’s very revealing of a sense of superiority. He certainly is superior to me at being a journalist, ie. he’s one and I’m not. But with this internet thingy, everyone gets a voice now. It must be really annoying for those who think they own the podium.


          • LordCanisLupus Jun 15, 2019 / 11:48 am

            Thought it was an excellent response, Fred. For all the gnashing of teeth at me, Andy Bull, like many before him could have had a useful discussion on what has happened to what was an interesting forum for debate. That there was an undoubted knocking of confidence in the honesty of cricket writing. That they were complicit in a shameful scapegoating and only giving nudges and winks to their “public”. Some acknowledge it. One journo said to us, paraphrasing, that the blog around that time took a few people by surprise. We raised points that needed addressing, and plenty felt uncomfortable in being attacked. In the end we and TFT were just two voices, but we attacked cricket like no-one else had done.

            I didn’t really have a problem with Bull’s response. It’s fine. I got angry, he can get angry too. I’ll say this, he came on here to do it. Jackson on the other hand, who, in my view, snitched the article to Bull (I may be wrong – but Bull said someone sent him the link and at that point only Jackson was losing his head over it) is contemptible. And yes, I’ll stick by that. Selvey was Selvey. Hilarious. Pompous. Everything we love about him.

            Thanks a lot for the response. I’m only sad you don’t like the Public Enemy thing. If we work together, It Would Take A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back. Fight the Power!


          • Deep Purple Fred Jun 15, 2019 / 2:32 pm

            Yeah, I think the threat to the profession, and their position, is one of the biggest drivers of this behaviour.
            Interesting to hear you’ve had that feedback on the blog from some. Journalism of course is a profession going through tremendous upheaval, so it’s a tough time for them, it’s increasingly difficult for them to set the agenda and control the narrative. But then, who isn’t going though tremendous upheaval, and since when is turning on the people who care a good strategy? Their only hope is to focus relentlessy on getting to the truth.

            I know Jackson writes sometimes for the Guardian. After these events I looked at his twitter account to get a sense of what he does. Couldn’t make any sense of it, but maybe that’s just twitter. It’s a bit odd though that he would take aim at you like that, you’ve been doing this for years, don’t know what set him off.

            I certainly think you popped up at the right time with this blog. The peasants were revolting, and needed a focal point. I’m sure Selvey thinks the peasants are still revolting. (Sorry, but I did say I get my revenge).

            Speaking of which, I had a vague suspicion about who Public Enemy might be. Youtube has confirmed my worst suspicions. I’m going to have to reflect on how to address this. There’s not much that a bit of Johnny Cash can’t make better.

            Liked by 2 people

        • dlpthomas Jun 15, 2019 / 6:00 pm

          Johnny Cash? For some reason I always assumed you were a massive Deep Purple fan.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Deep Purple Fred Jun 15, 2019 / 6:25 pm

            Why should the two be incompatible?
            Also Beethoven especially if conducted by Carles Kleiber, Leonard Cohen, Springsteen, Kris Kristoffersen, Mental as Anything, Blondie, Men at Work, Serge Gainsbourg, Verdi, Steely Dan, The The…a bit obsessed about Midnight Oil at the moment.
            Can’t put me in a box except the one that doesn’t include rap.
            You need to ask Quebecer about the deep purple thing.


          • Deep Purple Fred Jun 15, 2019 / 6:30 pm

            Yes, apparently they have made good new music in the last 20 years, I just don’t seem to have heard any yet. I’ve tried. Rhianna doesn’t do it for me, although Shakira did do one good tune.


          • dlpthomas Jun 16, 2019 / 3:29 am

            As the tee-shirt says “I may be old but at least I got to see all the good bands.”


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