OK. Let’s see how this works. Before I undertake the last round of Ashes Panels, let’s get immediate reactions to the conclusion of these Ashes. What have you taken from this Ashes series?
Quick, instant responses are the order of the day. Should be interesting.
Being Outside Cricket 
Joe Root, the return of Finn and Chris Rogers and er that’s it.
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Since the 1st April 2005 we’ve played South Africa at home in 7 tests, and away in 4 tests, while we’ve played 20 home tests and 15 away tests against the Aussies.
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I was underwhelmed at the hype over the 2013 home ashes, now I’m more than thoroughly sick of it. I don’t know if I will be refreshed by the 2017/8 Ashes, I somehow doubt it.
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Do South Africa have to take any blame for that?
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Thoroughly glad it’s all over. Hope the next two and a half years are far more competitive and pass nice and slowly. Worst Ashes I have seen or followed since at least 90/91, and probably ever. The win means nothing. Nix. Zip. Diddly. Niente. Off-field matters way more important; sickened by the talking up of this series and complacency regarding the ICC on TMS today.
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Hell, that was quick. I got the email even before cricinfo published the final wicket.
So. England actually performed as we might have expected: inconsistent, relying on a couple of standout performers or performances, raw. That’s not knocking them, BTW.
Australia were surprisingly similar. That shocked me. They really turned up twice, but I never expected them to phone it in as they did so often. They can’t use age and inexperience as an excuse. Pitches? Fairly blameless in my opinion. Only the sort you’d expect in GB. Overconfidence? Perhaps.
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Worst home Ashes’ series I can recall and my memory goes back to 1975.
I am however part of a minority filled with extraordinary scorn and suffering from a pleasure-taking deficit.
#wisdomofbull
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That Tom Harrison eh? He’ll make the trains run on time *and* increase tractor production.
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I will quote Journalist Andrew McGlashan:
“I mean this in the nicest way, but thank goodness it’s two years before we do this again”
The magic has gone out of it for me. Still a lot of work to be done to regain the magic of England cricket, Test cricket, and the Ashes.
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Good to see England “kicking on” since winning the Ashes at Nottingham.
Unlike the 2005 side……….
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Didn’t feel like a proper test match standard series.
Plenty of impressive bowling. Plenty of poor batting.
Still more enjoyable to watch than most stuff on Sky’s 1000 odd channels.
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Underwhelmed, unsurprised, under Cooked….
Over-exposed, overblown, over and out… ( it was all a no-ball)
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Not sure. Reminiscent of 2009 where we won a series but I still can’t work out how.
Ambivalent is how I can beat describe it
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Best not beat
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For me it’s just the end of another summer of cricket. The Ashes have been and always should be special but the ECB’s decision to alter the schedule so we may have a better chance of winning the world cup has cheapened the Ashes but they don’t see that. I’m glad we have won, my prediction was busted by the third test but I guess I’m not the only one who got it wrong. It is slightly amusing to hear Cook on sky admit that he never thought England would win though
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Glad it’s over with – fed up of playing the Ashes games, like to see some other cricket.
All the more because it’s become such a huge home advantage for both sides.
I’m all for a bit of home advantage, I like the challenge that Test cricket presents of different conditions in different places. But these lopsided results don’t do that much for me.
Glad we won. Better than losing. Not thrilled that we won only on seaming wickets – says to me we still haven’t confronted how bad we seem to be on other surfaces. Which brings me back to 0-5 and no inquiry, just sacking KP.
I predicted 3-1 the other way. Long time since I’ve gotten a prediction so wrong.
I underestimated home advantage. But I really wonder what that says about the upcoming Tours…
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It says we are going to suffer in the UAE (although Broad was brilliant the last time we were there).
Still as its a) far away, and b) during the middle of the football season and finally c) against Pakistan (not a team that a fair weather cricket supporter cares about) so it will be ignored if the results are terrible.
The batting still looks lopsided and dependent on Cook and Root. I like Cooks batting, his captaincy has improved, but he is coming from such a low base (the India series was an outlier because it was dependent on Panesar, Swann, Cook and KP and it was done using the template previously set by Strauss and Flower) that it seems good now because it was so awful for two years.
In an ideal world Compton would be bought back (forget form, like Tres and Vaughan he has the temperament for test cricket). That would provide stability at the top, would leave the no 3 less likely to be exposed early, and would allow all the dashers (not rashers autocorrect although that word seems apposite) to do their thing.
Also Anderson should be ‘rested’ for the UAE, he is more likely to get conditions that suit in SA and it would allow us to look at other bowlers.
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Worst series ever. No nail biting, no hiding behind the sofa. Just astonishment at how inept both sides were.
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I am always pleased when we beat Australia, even if I deeply dislike the ECB and the way it runs cricket in this country. However, the 3-2 series win does rather flatter England. We were better than Australia often enough to win the series, and yet showed woeful frailty in the batting at Lords and the Oval.
I have been pleased to see Joe Root do so well, even if it now seems that if he fails in each innings – as he did at Lords and the Oval – England lose. But he does look a classy player and his series average of 57.5 is way ahead of all his team mates.
Stuart Broad put in some fine bowling performances, and there were enough other good spells from Anderson, Finn, Stokes and Wood to back him up.
Stokes looks like a player who will sometimes win us games, but sometimes fail quite badly. People will have to be patient with him, because it won’t always work.
Much improved fielding from England on the whole, well done to Farbrace and then Bayliss for making sure the players worked harder on this to sharpen it up.
However….there are still so many areas of doubt.
Cook and Lyth’s best opening partnership was only about 35 and poor Lyth has ended the series with an average of 12 and a bit, Cook a respectable but not great 36.6 average. I am not saying that Lyth should now be jettisoned, but he does keep getting himself out after positive starts. Suddenly Nick Compton’s test average of about 35 looks quite respectable !
The lack of a frontline spinner. Moeen Ali is a talented batsman who can bowl a bit and takes a few useful wickets, but he still lacks control. Adil Rashid should have had a chance in the West Indies.I hope he gets a go in the UAE, plus even anyone else in the counties who can bowl decent spin. Crane is a name I have heard mentioned, but I have no idea what he is like.
Batting frailty. England had two awful batting collapses at Lords and the Oval. Bell is out of form and you wonder if he might call time on his career, it sounded a bit like that when Aggers interviewed Bell after the match. Bairstow deserves some more chances, even if I am not totally convinced. Buttler has kept wicket well enough, but his poor form with the bat is a great disappointment.
There’s still that worry about our bowling attack being a bit insipid when the ball isn’t swinging or moving off the seam. Delighted that Finn has found his way back into the side. Wood certainly looks worth a run in the side, assuming he can stay fit. I would probably rest Jimmy Anderson for the UAE and then take him to SA.
Still fuming with rage that cricket is not on free to air TV apart from Channel 5 highlights. Don’t like this ECB-SKY stitch-up.
Too much poor batting in this series and lack of fight from both teams at times, so you couldn’t call it a great series. Agree with others on here that there has been far too much Ashes cricket over the last few years.
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Alex,
As I had to clear the post, I’m assuming this is your first. Welcome to the comments section. Beware, we’re all vicious bullies, nasty miserable specimens, virulently anti-England. So be careful!
Thanks for stopping by.
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Thanks. I am a female cricket fan. I have started posting on The Full Toss recently. Sadly some nasty person has hacked into the TFT website and it will be offline until tomorrow. Personally I could never not want England to do well, even though I don’t like the way the ECB runs things and deplore the way KP was treated.
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And all that is perfectly fine by me (not the hacking but the latter part). I think the strength of feelings of a good deal of our commenters can take some time to get used to, but this isn’t the cauldron it’s made out to be.
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What have you taken from this Ashes series?
Never Again
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England deserved to win, but that isn’t saying much. The two emphatic losses tell their own story.
This was far from a vintage series and will probably be remembered as an oddity.
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The Ashes itself: the standard of play at most times was quite abysmal. The England collapses were not warranted, and the Aussie collapses suggested the team had no spine either.
Can anyone explain to me how on merit the Ashes get to be 5 Tests? Because in terms of standard of play the Ashes have not lived up to the billing for 10 years now (with the possible exception of 2009). Hell, even 2006/07 had much higher standards from England than this cr*pfest.
We are now reaching a stage when Ashes are decided when one side collapses time and again when a bit of pressure is being applied. The other side being unable to exert any pressure whatsoever. Beating Australia in Australia is a hard ask, but 5-0? Beating England in England is a tough ask, but 136 all out? 60 all out?
For both teams: I would dread what the future brings, especially on the road.
Cricket is doomed. I am not referring to the standard of play, which at times was truly abysmal (from either England or Australia), but in terms of administration. And the English MSM is too busy celebrating it, as they’re by and large too incompetent to notice it.
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This Ashes for me has not been about the cricket. There hasn’t been one close test match, and England are now reduced to producing green seaming pitches to have any chance of not just winning but even being competitive. They have been marmalised on the two times we played on flat pitches.
No, this ashes has for me been the exposure of the bankruptcy of the English cricket media. I get they don’t like KP, but the idea that Cook has to be continually protected and elevated to an almost comic level has been revealing in the extreme. We are 18 months on from the sacking of KP and still Cook is treated with kid gloves. The reason these Ashes have been won has NOTHING to do with Cook. He hasn’t scored an innings of any note in the 3 victories and when your bowlers are shooting the opposition out for 60 and 130 odd any old fool could do it.
That so much of the media genuflect in front of him and lie to their readers that he is the second coming of Bradman/Brearley/Jesus shows them to be frauds. They talk about him in the same cringing tones as the media do in a tin pot banana Republic about the dictator. But we shouldn’t be surprised, English cricket has become a Banana republic in all but name.
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“F*****g lighten up people”.
The wisdom of BTL at the Guardian these days.
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That’s why I left three months ago. Respect to Zeph, NOC, Rooto, Metatone and all the others on here who keep fighting the good fight, I just can’t be bothered. I am worried about CliveJW though as he seems to have disappeared from everywhere. If your reading this, hope your okay and ignore the bile
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Clivejw has been commenting sometimes on this series:
https://profile.theguardian.com/user/id/2130775
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Clive has been back at the G recently, but is commenting less often. He seems to be OK. I imagine he took a sensible break from it all, some of the commenters there are extremely personally unpleasant to him.
Guardian BTL is not what it was, and that’s what it was after it wasn’t what it had been before.
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Clive has been commenting on Twitter these past few days. I understand he took a break to focus on work. Nice to see him and his inimitable voice back online.
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Thanks everyone, glad he is okay, the abuse he received last year and early this was unedifying. It was one of the reasons I stopped commenting and reading below page 1 of the comments. Different opinions are welcome (as comment is free) but certain individuals went way too far and personalised it. All because of the sheep jibe, I liked sheep, but I think I now prefer ‘De Niro’ as a nickname as it is obscure enough (and reflects my age)
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I used to comment on both DT and Guardian but have given up as there is a bloke on there called William who has been directing. Personal and nasty comments at me.decided it was not worth the trouble any more.
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I’ve been at the G BTL less and less for cricket – it isn’t what it was.
Zeph’s comment made me miss lukethedrifter, quebecer and clivejw and others.
Tempus fugit I suppose…
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lukethedrifter is a brilliant commenter and offers good insight in SL cricket, but I think work commitments have taken him away. quebecer hangs in there, his put-downs of the smug brigade are one of the things that keep me going back. Galactus, AIX and hieroglyph have taken refuge in the county blogs, which are unfortunately not proof against smug incursions.
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DeanWalling95 (not a familiar name to me) has been very good though. Shame there’s so much dross to wade through.
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Just realised that was TheHarry! Surprised and disappointed. What part of “plenty of non-jingoistic cricket lovers thought it was utter crap” are people struggling with?
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This win is even more underwhelming than 1977, when Greg Chappell’s team was internally split and the Aussies came over without ChappelIi and Lillee. The analytic capability of the mass media has been woeful. This series is equivalent to Borges’s comment on the Falklands War – 2 bald men fighting over a comb. This is not the pinnacle of world cricket at the moment and it demeans everyone who is bigging it up so much to say so. I think every match was decided by tea time on day 1. This tells me that the level of cricket was not Test standard.
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1977? One thing that series had in common with this one was Australia finally picking at the Oval a bowler they should, in retrospect, have been selecting earlier in the series.
Anyone else remember Mick Malone?
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Best bowling average in the last 60 years of Test cricket (min. 5 wickets):
http://goo.gl/CA7s7s
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He bowled all day from the same end.
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Thinking again, in 1977 there was some lovely batting from Randall and Woolmer and a truly great century from Greg Chappell on a wearing pitch at Old Trafford against Derek Underwood. Boycott made his 100th 100. Knott played a marvellous innings of 116 at Trent Bridge, getting Boycs out of the catatonic state he had been in since he had run out Randall. And then we had the debut (and immediate impact) of a certain IT Botham. This year’s series doesn’t match up really. Broad’s 8 for, some consistent batting from Rogers, some excellence from Smith and Root, and a general ocean of very average cricket. I am not sure that any of the cricketers this year would get into those teams from 1977, apart from the Aussie openers, Smith and perhaps Nathan Lyon.
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Not nearly as underwhelming as your recent comment about your hopes for player injury though is it?
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What’s your rate?
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Ok – have to get this off my chest.
Love it that Finn came back and took some wickets.
Not at all sure that the new model cuts the mustard when bowling is tough.
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“The brace of humiliating defeats that won the Ashes for Alastair Cook”.
Need you ask….?
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“Has question marks of skill and temperament hanging over him.”
The oracle assesses Adil Rashid’s credentials for the UAE in typically dispassionate manner…
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He is such a pompous arse
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Not sure I have ever seen someone so consistently belittled by a writer before they have even played a Test. Beyond ridiculous.
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Clearly he ignored him, spurned him or did something that offended him to such a degree that he has to stick the knife in constantly.
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I wouldn’t mind so much if we had someone else to try.
But Rashid has spent literally years of his cricketing life carrying drinks for England.
I’m past “he deserves a chance” for that, to “make a decision already, but don’t ever take him on tour again if you don’t intend to play him.”
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Generally poor performances, interspersed with the odd innings and bowling performance of high class, from certain individuals.
Too familiar a foe and test series has watered down the history and significance of this great event!
Great joy in the performances of Finn, Root, Smith, Rogers, Broad, Stokes and Starc, but less joy in Cook’s team’s victory.
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That stat about Moeen and Broad as a batting partnership is rather pleasing. They seem to have become friends as well.
In fact, even us relentless churls have to be pleased that the current England team, in spite of being part of a ‘commercial animal’ and surrounded by a miasma of obfuscation and misgovernance, appear to like each other and to subscribe to the McCullum mantra that these are the days of their lives and if they can’t enjoy their cricket, what’s the point? Anderson was almost unrecognisable after the match, grinning all over his face and being thoroughly silly, and the change in Cook has been remarkable, from St Sebastian to St Francis of Assisi in just a few months.
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It is always easier to look happy when you have won a series. Lose the series in the UAE and the expressions will probably be a bit different.
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Crushing win for India. Kohli’s captaincy was greeted with much hype but so far he is living up to his promise of more positivity – India have scored quickly, fielded better, the confidence shown in Ashwin is being rewarded and the declaration was well timed. They’ll have to overcome the loss of Vijay and Saha to injury in the series’ decider on Friday. Very disappointed in the Lankans who can normally be relied on to fight hard at least – too many passengers in their batting, the younger bowlers leak runs and Herath’s body looks to be creaking.
The Guardian has an open thread on the TV deal (so far not risen much above the “this is great for me because…..” level).
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I think it’s easy to forget how thin the SL squad is, particularly on the bowling side.
Herath is probably being over bowled at the moment.
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Herath is 37 and has dodgy knees. It’s still quite shocking that on a turning pitch where Kaushal took a four-for and Ashwin a five-for he took 0/95.
I’m more worried about their batting though. There’s either a lack of options or some ultra-conservative selection (or both) if they’re still selecting a 34 year old who hasn’t made a fifty in thirteen Tests (Mubarak).
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Nick Hoult reckons Root is certain to be rested from the ODIs. That couldn’t have happened of Root had been made ODI captain so credit to Strauss for some joined-up thinking there. Hoult has a good stat that since his Root made his debut only two players across the world, Kohli and Mathews, have played more international matches. Taylor or Vince seem probable replacements. Stokes might be rested as well.
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Anyone have an update on Eoin Morgan since this?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-cricket-2015/content/story/905979.html
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Here’s confirmation of the Nick Hoult stat:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=11;filter=advanced;groupby=players;orderby=matches;spanmin1=13+dec+2012;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team
England players don’t quite dominate the list as I expected (although I suspect they play more days of cricket as more of their matches are Tests). What’s also noticeable is that near the top of the list it is only England players who have lost more matches than they’ve won which says something about the supposed “era of unprecedented success” we’re supposedly enjoying when one considers results across all formats. Misbah at 27th is the first non-English player on the list.
However that may just be my extraordinary scorn speaking.
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England don’t play that many more Tests than India or Australia (and none of the English players feature in the IPL. You know how much it takes out of people to travel from Bangalore to Delhi, to Chennai to Kolkatta? Six weeks without an end in sight?).
Barring the Pakistani players, Thirimanne and Amla everyone else seems to be playing in the IPL in that list. Those days are not counted either in those stats.
How many England players play in the BBL, CPL, or any of the other T20 leagues?
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England and Australia have played virtually the same number of Tests in that period but all other nations are some way behind:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=matches;spanmin1=13+dec+2012;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team
It’s interesting how no Australian player has played 70+ matches since late 2012 while Root is over a hundred and others like Buttler aren’t far behind. While I don’t think that’s all down to the genius of CA I do think there is evidence that they’ve managed players’ workloads rather better than the ECB.
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Fair point about India and Tests.
I’d be surprised if Root played more than 3 domestic games / season these days. And he certainly has no commitments in any of the T20 leagues. And that applies to just about anyone who is part of the Test squad and the ODI team.
That does not apply just as indiscriminately to non-English players. Most of the international players play in the IPL as well. The Pakistanis miss out on the IPL, but they usually feature in the NatWest Blast, CPL, Ram Slam 20, or the BBL. Or any combination thereof.
So you can add roughly 40 matches for Kohli (T20), AB de Villiers and a host of international stars such as Warner, Steyn, Johnson, etc. The only England qualified players that played in the IPL recently are Morgan and KP. Just because they’re short games does not mean that they are played at 1/10th of the intensity of your average good Test.
If you’d look at all cricket players play, I don’t think the English players are the most overworked. Kohli must have played 150 matches since the cut-off date, so that means he has been on the field for at least 230 days. Don’t think even Joe Root gets there. KP would have, but you know how that was dealt with: not by the powers that be taking responsibility, but by blaming KP effectively for being too good a cricketer.
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Fair point about how little cricket outside the international arena England players play. Root’s figures for Yorkshire:
2013 2 CC, 1 List A.
2014 4 CC, 1 T20.
2015 1 T20.
There is a project here to look at how many days’ cricket a year leading players from different nations are playing. However even I’m feeling a little statsgurued-out at the moment!
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Yeah. I mean Amla played 6 CC matches in 2013 for Surrey. Four more for Surrey in 2014 and 2 for Derbyshire this year. So he has played more CC cricket than Root over the past three years. Never mind the fact that he is playing 6000 miles from home. Part of it is undoubtedly due to the English summer overlapping for most part with the CC. But it is just yet another indicator that while other teams may not have international commitments, their players are not sitting at home twiddling their thumbs.
It can be rather complicated to get the right figure. A Test can be finished in three days (we have seen a few of those in the Ashes), while another Test has only 1 day play (the BD-SA 2nd Test springs to mind). There would be caveats all over the place.
Home series are easier to cope with than away series too. Bit hard to say hello to the wife at home, when you’re on the other side of the world. Let alone, if there are stresses in the marriage (whether that is relationship issues, not seeing the wife and kids, security concerns (it must eat away at the Afghani players for instance)).
What I think happens is that players are managed better in other countries. Steyn does not always get picked for the limited overs stuff. He needs his rest, and he needs to be preserved for Tests. A meaningless T20 or ODI series does not mean much to him.
The reality is that he nets close to $100k per IPL game. That is about $4000 / ball bowled. That is insane kind of money, that he cannot earn on his national contract (yay ICC!). And he has to think of life beyond cricket too.
By the time Root retires, he will probably have earned close to 20 million pounds on his central contract + match fees alone – no such luck for players outside the Big 3 – and I assume that pensions and such are quite decent in England too.
I think this might be an unintended consequence of the central contract system in England. If you acquire enough points, you’ll be given a contract, and that means the ECB has to pay up some serious money. Better to flog the already handsomely paid players to death then …
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Weird feeling after. A sense of satisfaction in that I went to the first three days at Cardiff. These were the closest the series came to a contest and pleased with the scoreline as my girlfriend won a 25/1 bet on 3-2 so it was nice to go and collect it for her.
Unsatisfactory was the uncompetitive nature of games and realising that there is a lot to be done still with this team and the worry that it will be swept under the carpet.
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Sorry I’m late to this.
17 days of cricket for this series. Absolutely fucking abysmal. That’s how I feel. I’ve had enough of Ashes cricket thanks. The standard has been terrible.
Looking forward to seeing the Pak-England series in my back yard. I think it will be the last time as Pkistan are off to set up shop in Qatar. I think England will do well, well better than ’12.
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I was speaking to a work mate who is well into his associate cricket. After the 4th test he greeted me by saying how great it was he won and I told him that the series had been a joke. He admitted he hadn’t seen that test because he went away. Saw him again today and he said the last test was a damp squib. I simply replied by saying that the whole series had been that and this time he wasn’t inclined to disagree. I have real fears about test cricket going forward given that the likes of Windies and Sri Lanka are two countries who’ve been happy to sacrifice test cricket for limited overs stuff in recent times. It ain’t great.
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I meant we (England) won and not ‘he’ won as in the 2nd sentence.
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