My sincere thanks to Vian for his preview. Glad it went down well.
I am not about today so this is my one contribution for now so as usual, comments on the day’s action and anything else below.
I’m cooking at the moment over a comment yesterday. Still not simmered down. Will revert in due course but could people please be awfully nice to everyone. Just like they’ve been to us the last 15 months!
Being Outside Cricket 
Vian has started well, he may have to keep looking over his shoulder less he upstages the incumbent Captain of this ship, or he’ll be out within two tests for ‘disrupting this dressing room’.
I also truly hope that in-fighting/name slagging desists amidst us outside…
Have a good day all – at least until around 3:15pm BST when the circus starts again if we bat first and one or more openers have failed…(positivity!)
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“I’m cooking at the moment over a comment yesterday.”
I’m not surprised.
Speaking only for myself, I have to let off some steam here, because you get modded in other places, and because *certain people* give just as much as they get, often start the row, deliberately wind others up, wilfully misrepresent their position, derail discussion, assert their own superiority based on Test match attendance, still refer to us as KP groupies or similar, insult others on Twitter or sometimes loftily pronounce their refusal to engage in dialogue.
One example: I disagree with BillyMills on KP. I don’t think I’ve mentioned him by name on here once, because he doesn’t go round insulting and/or patronising everyone who sees things differently. *Certain people* do that time and time again.
Not sure anyone should change their behaviour because they’re told off by a visitor. Same thing happened on TFT a while ago when someone ‘anonymous’ waded in calling everyone a raving lefty. People like that created this schism and this reaction, I’m afraid. Law of unintended consequences applies.
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“*certain people* give just as much as they get, often start the row, deliberately wind others up, wilfully misrepresent their position, derail discussion, assert their own superiority based on Test match attendance, still refer to us as KP groupies or similar,”
This is, in fact, trolling, The purpose of trolling is to control the discussion, winding everyone else up and diverting the thread to be about what *you* want it to be about. What’s difficult to take on board sometimes is that just because somebody is quite knowledgeable about the subject doesn’t stop them from being a troll.
Agree about Billy, he has strong views but is always courteous. Similarly I don’t mind some of the more manic Indian posters, as their rants come from passion and they don’t try to control others.
But I’m mystified, where is this nasty comment? Or would it be better for me not to know?
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On House Notice II. But, rather like *certain people*, it’s not nasty, just insufferably sanctimonious and condescending.
(I’m staying right out of the other matter it raises)
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It’s rather like going into a pub and complaining the beer isn’t very nice. Obvious response – there’s another pub down the road.
If I’m ever unbearable on here, feel free to tell me. I don’t do aggro any more (except when it comes to England selectors) – can’t be bothered. Saw a great board in a pub recently. Quote Of The Day: “I’m too old to know everything”
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Ah.
Well, yes, it’s a point of view.
Re poets, I tend to agree, though I think it was kindly meant. Re others, not so much. See my comment above.
On we go.
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Are we talking about Yossarian’s post? Because if we are, then it’s a worrying state of affairs as that’s as lukewarm a criticism as you’ll find.
As a community on here you/we (I don’t post often enough to feel like part of the ‘we’) need to be able to accept criticism if it’s well intentioned and made in good faith.
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I am incredibly busy offline at the mo. I take all criticism seriously as you know. I re-evaluate and take it on board. I also try not to respond when annoyed with a comment or post and right or wrong but yossarian’s did annoy me last night / this morning.
Will do so when I get time and stone time has passed. Initially I don’t see why I should respect someone who has insulted a whole band of supporters just because he or she loves cricket. So do we and I’ve seen us called all sorts. As for the Jackie issue, I took action. Whether people agreed or not is up to them. If it is perceived as bullying then we all need to reflect. I see nothing wrong with that and I will keep this in mind.
Maybe I don’t like recent trends. This is not a message board but a blog. If people want a message board then fine. I’m not moderating it.
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Dmitri, you’re at a tricky point with this blog because it has become more public and more publicly known, so you’ll get more people dropping by to say that they think we’re all idiots or whatever and never be seen again. They seem to already get that more often over at TFT.
At the same time, I know from experience how much a blog feels like one’s own territory and arguments on the blog are as upsetting as friends having a row in one’s house. But sometimes people come round who say stuff and maybe it’s better just shrugged off, or reflected on a bit but not taken to heart.
You seem to strike a good balance and you do pull us up if we get too snarky or political or generally inappropriate, which I hope Vian will do too.
As for certain posters in other places who deliberately set out to be combative and critical and to troll people who hold certain views, they can take care of themselves and have no need for anyone to plead for mercy on their behalf.
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Can I make a little request re blog set-up/new post ID? With the (mostly) wonderful responses in numbers to each post, it gets difficult to follow if checking on ‘recent comments’ sideline where during a game all posts relate to West Indies v England preview/day one/day two etc, yet on the sideline only West Indies v England appears, so not sure which post has been replied to…
If you cut the header say, ‘WI v ENG day 1, 2nd T’ it may make things easier for us outside thee outside to quickly follow – just a thought?
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Never thought about that! I shall try to be
You could subscribe to the comments so you see them all come in to your inbox?
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I do have a life! lol …. and when it gets busy on here… but maybe worth discussing with his (no longer) Lordship – go see what the old greyfox thinks before he goes awol in the gin bars 😉
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Good article that.
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Someone had linked to it on the ‘sagacity’ thread. I thought that Booth nigh on nailed it there. His proper analysis of last year’s India series, so absent with some rather prominent colleagues of his, is welcoming and gets to grips with the wider issues of the last couple of years.
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Does anybody else think this is a joke? It smacks of how desperate they are getting now.
“Cook will be given chance to rediscover form.” What has he be doing for the last year but trying to rediscover his form? Why only now is he to be “officially” given time? And based on what exactly?
Because the coach thinks he sees positive signs in the nets, and he is hitting the ball and moving his feet. No mention of runs, which is odd because the same coach and management team insist that other players must go back to county cricket and score bucket loads of runs to be even considered.
The sense of entitlement given to this one player is vomit inducing.
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You know some people are even coming out with “he needs time in county cricket to get his form back”. Well he had that a year ago, and did well, in advance of facing subcontinental attacks widely portrayed as fish out of water.
What did it prove, exactly?
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The tide is well and truly turning….
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Good stat – Joe Root has never played in a overseas’ Test victory.
(Not making the point to get at Root of course. It shows England’s recent away woes.)
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Broad’s record of away Test wins and his contribution to them is interesting:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/10617.html?class=1;home_or_away=2;home_or_away=3;result=1;template=results;type=allround;view=match
Since Durban in 2009 just four wins (two against Bangladesh) and just seven wickets in those games.
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It’s often forgotten that Broad was injured in the 2nd Test of the “Triumph Down Under.”
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Toss delayed by showers.
Botham just said he’s heard Rashid plays for Tredwell.
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Guardian OBO MSTC:
4
In half an hour. With no cricket.
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Botham was wrong. Ali in for Tredwell (who is fit). Big surprise is Gabriel in for Taylor for WI.
England won toss and bowl. Ramdin said he’d have bowled. Every pundit has said they expect some movement both from some dampness in the wicket and high humidity.
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“expect some movement both from some dampness in the wicket and high humidity”
…and not to forget from the cheap Dukes (or is WI cunningly only bowling with the cheap ones themselves??)
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Did anyone hear George Dobell on the switch hit podcast? He seems to think that Cook was looking better at the crease during the first Test. Just what did he see? Nick Knight on Sky has just demonstrated that his new stance is horribly flawed.
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The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
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Great wicket Jimmy! Wicket sounds as if there’ll be plenty of toil in it later on? Team selection? Conservative, formulaic…safe?
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One suspects that England will rue it if they don’t make the most of this opening spell, with the damp and the “cheap ball swing.”
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Aye! Another few overs and it’ll be buggered!!
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England in a good position here. WI 28-2, I can feel a collapse in the air…
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On seeing some replays, WI a little unlucky with Devon Smith’s wicket.
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No idea how the Sky commentators didn’t realise for so long that Smith hadn’t nicked that one. It was obvious in real time he’d gotten nowhere near it and the original replays showed it pretty clearly.
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I think they were thrown by the lack of a review. I guess Smith felt that without Hotpost/Snicko there was a high chance of losing the review?
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How many games in a row do I have to hear Bob Willis say “England didn’t quite bowl the right length” before someone asks some questions of the coaching team about it?
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Actually, a question for the more seasoned cricket viewers. I’m watching Bob Willis criticise the length England have bowled so far. This is not a new complaint.
Everyone knows that to make the most of a swinging ball, you bowl full / a good length. None of our bowlers are proper pace bowlers. English county cricket is traditionally beneficial to swing bowling, due to the climate and many of the pitches.
Bearing that in mind… why are we one of the worst countries when it comes to knowing how to make the most of swinging conditions?
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When you put it like that… England sound just a bit incompetent… which is at least partially the problem. There’s something hapless about this England side…
Yet, I think there’s more. Broad has always had issues bowling fuller, he seems only to do it regularly for his occasional magic spells. Beyond that, Jordan did a bit better today. Anderson got the wicket, but maybe still a touch short on average.
I think there’s something fundamental in the England setup, the bowlers are “safety first” or “bowl dry” – we can see who doesn’t get picked (Rashid, Finn) and it is those who chase wickets over economy. So, bowl a safer length?
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Oh no – Stokes with the dreaded slide and knee getting caught in the ground. Looks in pain. Might not be as bad as I fear as it seems they’re concentrating on his hip rather than his knee itself.
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OK, he’s up and about. Doesn’t look too serious, but I’d be surprised if it didn’t affect him.
Broad spearing in fearsome 80mph yorkers…
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A short-pitched Broad ball takes a wicket.
What do I know, eh?
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Forgive me but I’m finding this test pretty boring atm
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Then for you things can only get better.
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😊
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Chanderpaul goes: 74-4
WI in real trouble now.
England will polish them off for a low score in these conditions and Cook and Trott will have as pressure-free a chance as possible to get in the groove.
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What do you think is a low score?
220 maybe?
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Much depends on whether conditions stay the same. This is not easy batting conditions at all. If it’s clear and sunny when England bat, then it should be cash in time. If not, well it’ll be as hard as it’s been so far today.
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I did indeed have 220 in mind, although as a long-suffering England fan, I’d by lying if I said I was actually as confident as I sounded. Forecast for tomorrow is better, so England should be in a good position…
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Poor bugger; http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/apr/21/steven-finn-england-past
So Saker did ruin Finn as has been suggested and MS was wrong all along. I just hope the martinets at Loughborough don’t do any further damage.
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Well, Finn is too smart to say so, but certainly between the lines that appears to be the message. He got a pile of advice with England that messed him up.
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Reading between the lines he was bullied into it:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2013/feb/21/england-steven-finn-new-zealand
And Mike Selvey thought it was the best thing since sliced bread even though the bowler resisted. This tells you everything that was wrong with the England set up, both the coaches and the hangers on.
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What’s stuck with me is Saker’s comment to Finn after he declared him “unselectable” — something along the lines of “Go back to county cricket and try to get back to bowling the way you were when you first came in here.”
It was Saker who recounted it, and he was clearly unaware of the irony of it. Or the sadness of having screwed up someone’s entire career. Sure. as Finn says, it’s up to the player himself to filter out the dross, we all know what happens to those in the England set up who don’t submit their will to the coaches.
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“Tredwell not ‘unlucky’,” writes Mike Selvey, our man in Grenada. “He did an excellent first innings job, but was well aware of the score. if you can improve a side, you do so
Now if only he’d apply that logic consistently.
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Right. That’s what has been so off-putting about the England camp as a whole. Prior struggling with injury? He can decide… etc. etc.
And of course, so off-putting about some journalists is the way they appear to have become part of the England camp.
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Can Jordan look forward to a humble apology in front of Team England in the dressing room for that drop by Cook? or does that not happen anymore?
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Surely if you have the right kind of family you are excused from such things.
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Perhaps his butler will do it for him then?
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Cook drops sitter.
Not called a numpty.
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If only he’d drop himself…..on a more serious note he’s a poor slip fielder isn’t he? He’s dropped a fair few straightforward catches in the last year or so.
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Difficult caught and bowled missed by Broad. Apologies all round and too one’s self i guess.
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I know it’s a slow pitch, but Broad is bowling strict military medium pace here. It’s like the days when Alan Mulally was in the side.
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any swing or seam?
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Can’t help but agree. I wonder how fit he really is. He started the 1st innings of the last test ok but it went downhill as that test progressed. It now is pretty horrid looking. I wonder if this is another fine mess created by the England medical staff.
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He started the first few overs at a good pace (although too short for these pitch conditions) – certainly makes you wonder if he’s really fit to play the 5 day game at the moment.
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You are perhaps being unkind to Mullally. More like Edd Giddens?
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I knew my spelling didn’t look right! But then you said Edd so one apiece? 😉
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Nothing like a score draw eh??
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Stokes putting in an impressive shift in over sixty-six: 88 mph and now 90.1 mph.
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Yorkshire have requested that Adil Rashid be released from the England team. Interesting.
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On the one hand I suppose they calculate that he’s virtually certain not to play, on the other it seems that right now they need Plunkett back much more (given Sidebottom’s injury) than a spinner for relatively unhelpful early season pitches.
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Has he been taken hostage by England?
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Telegraph reporting that England could have continued bowling IF they’d put on a spinner.. but Cook chose to put on a quick, so off they went.
Just one question: WHY???
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I suspect he doesn’t think his spinners will get any wickets in this in this situation. He might be right about that too, but then it might raise the question why England doesn’t have a specialist spinner in the team. (I don’t know.)
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Well, the view seems to be that they didn’t want to bowl Root and let Samuels get an easy 6 runs for his hundred tonight , so Cook walked off after telling the umpire he would bowl pace. Tomorrow they can come back with fresh bowlers and pace and the batsman have to start again.
The other argument put by Nasser was to tempt him with some Root slow stuff and see if he would go and try and get is hundred in one hit. Pays your money takes your choice. If England come back tomorrow and get the remaining 5 wickets fairly cheaply then alls well. But England do need to get these wickets fairly quickly. If the WI get another 100 runs England could be under pressure. And they have to bat last.
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Does this close of play time or the light reading have any influence on the time the game might end on the final day?
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Cook was clearly distracted by Pietersen when he put that catch down.
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