Comments on the concluding day of the test below. Should be around later but have a funeral to go to first.
Can England take 8 wickets? Can Devon Smith get his first test ton in 11 (?) years? Excitement if it doesn’t rain.
Oh, and Freddie. It ain’t my job to be a professional cheerleader.
Being Outside Cricket 
If Cook is going to get stick for his captaincy then it’s only right to say that was a very good declaration yesterday. Even if the West Indies survive, it’s still a good one. Ok, it shouldn’t be the hardest and most amazing of decisions to make, but we’d all have been screaming if they’d set them 500, so that’s good.
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Yes, I wanted to ask about this. I am only able to follow on Cricinfo/OBO etc and that is difficult to judge what is actually happening on the field.
But in certainly terms of the declaration, but also some bowling changes, there were a few proactive decisions (Tredders before tea, Tredders AFTER tea, bowling Root, tucking in a short leg etc). From the commentary it also looked as if there were actual bowling plans, and certainly less half pitched nonsense….
At times though it did feel again as if Cook was sitting back waiting again…? Is there an actually a change or improvement in Cook’s captaincy (not that it would be very hard to improve..)?
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Well, being mischievous you could argue it was an improvement in Peter Moores’ captaincy….sorry planning!
I didn’t see him in the field, someone else would have to answer that.
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or is this Ottis Gibson’s influence?
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Incidentally that catch by Jordan deserves comment. England don’t have that much to shout about but they do have probably the two best fast bowling fielders in the world game in him and Anderson. The catch in the first innings was special enough, but Jesus that one yesterday was unbelievable.
England should win barring rain. If they don’t, then the West Indies have done brilliantly. England haven’t done much wrong here.
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I love Freddie to bits but it seems he is desperately looking for a role.
He’s tried a burger van, and boxing, why not replace Selvey next?
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Michael Clarke on KP: At the moment, from the Australians’ perspective, I’m happy if he’s not playing [Tests] because he’s a wonderful player.”
All you need to know, really.
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Angelo Mathews expressed similar sentiments before last year’s series. As Harmy put it ‘Who needs opponents when you’ve got the ECB on your side’
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England could have used some of Scyld Berry’s cheap balls that swing round corners when new yesterday evening because the new ball they had did six shades of bugger all.
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Funny that isn’t it?
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I’m not sure how fair it is to out someone’s identity publicly.
I know our host would be furious if I did it to him. Maybe it’s just me being oversensitive.
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To be honest I’m far less interested in that person’s “real identity” rather than finding it rather sad that they have to come out with that overly emotive stuff over a player and thus disrupt potentially good discussions when we have to read overly emotive stuff by the likes of Selvey and co regarding Captain Steely.
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You are entirely free to disagree with me, I have no issue with that.
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Okay Vian. 🙂
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I concur with Vian. I don’t think this sort of thing should be posted. If she wants to be anon, she should be.
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I disagree.
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Given I use a pseudonym I’m putting that comment in cold storage.
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I’ll come out too. My name isn’t really Benny
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I also use a pseudonym Dmitri. But this is not an ordinary case. You and several of your readers think nothing of criticizing Jackie and laughing at her Ian Bell obsession. But when you are told just who you are criticizing and laughing at, you moderate the post.
Under the circumstances I urge you to re-consider.
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I’ve put it in cold storage. It is on hold. I am currently at a funeral so you’d understand that this is not the highest priority right now.
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Okay Dmitri. There are more important things.
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Most importantly she listens to Dylan’s new “Shadows in the Night”. Final proof of impeccable judgement and taste (and I am serious – a friend of the latter day Bob is a friend of mine!). Good on you Jackie.
Now dear Zero, please tell who you are.
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Glad that at least you understand that Jackie should not be a figure of fun.
She understands cricket and if she is a little obsessed with Ian Bell, so what. She makes some very useful comments over at the Guardian and has been called “Impertinent” and “Relentless Churl” by MIke Selvey for her efforts.
As to who ZeroBullshit is, why don’t you investigate and post? 🙂
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Think we might get on well — love all His Bobness’s work, including his latest.
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Devon Smith justifies England’s selection of an opener who’s “bound to come good” by passing 60 for the first time in 41 Test innings (thanks to Zaltzmann for stat).
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Opener fails to pass 100 for the umpteenth time.
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One wicket down due to a mad mow, another near wicket from a missed stumping, a couple of sixes….this is an interesting way to go about trying to save a match.
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Windies commit suicide.
However angry we get with our players, it’s nothing to how angry I’d feel with Windies players (and Administrators) if I were a fan.
I’d drop Samuels for good, just for that shot. Shai Hope must surely come in, next game.
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Interesting. Anderson has started bowling quickly
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Some people on here seem to feel that Ian Bell hasn’t made the most of his talent. What then to make of Marlon Samuels? Showed in England three years ago what an excellent batsman he is. Here, too, he was batting with real maturity and concentration, then just throws it away. He really doesn’t do himself justice and his time must be running out.
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Flintoff just tweeted that Anderson could be the first England cricketer to be an all-time great (quickly changing that to the first England bowler).
Really, better than the first man in the world to reach 300 wickets, and did so at an average of under 22? And also took 100 wickets a season for Yorkshire while doing so….
Jimmy is our best bowler since Botham retired, but let’s not go overboard.
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You beat me to it, Clive.
Jimmy’s got the current numbers, and he’s got power to add. That makes him excellent which isn’t faint praise. It’s what he does next that’ll decide if he becomes an all-time great, for me.
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Jimmy won’t ever be an all time great. There’s no way he’s got time to get his overseas average under 25.
Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. Barnes, Larwood, Trueman, Bedser, Statham, Snow, Willis, Gough?
That’s ignoring the spinners.
What kind of record would Higgs have had if he’d got 100 Tests?
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I type, and then there’s always someone handy to demonstrate my daftness straight back at me. Good points, Silk. Perhaps I’m praying for 100 more wickets from him in the next 20 Tests. And an extra 10mph. Yeah, ain’t gonna happen.
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He could get 100 wickets in the next 20 Tests. But that’s still extremely unlikely to turn him into a great overseas bowler.
If he, virtually single-handedly, bowling England to victory in UAE and South Africa then we can begin to talk about ‘all time great’.
For me, he’s not anywhere close to the quality of Ambrose, Marshall, Walsh, Holding, Wasim, Waqar, Imran, Lillee, Lindwall, Miller, McGrath, Hadlee, Steyn, Donald and Pollock.
Have I missed anyone? Am sure I must have.
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I’m sad. It’s a Friday night and I’m on Statsguru. (In my defence I’m killing time until my wife gets here and we can go to the theatre)
List of bowlers with at least 200 career Test wickets, and at least 100 Test wickets away from home, who have a better career average, and away from home average, than Anderson.
MD Marshall (WI)
J Garner (WI)
CEL Ambrose (WI)
GD McGrath (Aus)
AA Donald (SA)
Sir RJ Hadlee (NZ)
DW Steyn (SA)
Imran Khan (Pak)
RR Lindwall (Aus)
SM Pollock (SA)
Waqar Younis (Pak)
Wasim Akram (Pak)
MA Holding (WI)
DK Lillee (Aus)
CA Walsh (WI)
JB Statham (Eng)
RGD Willis (Eng)
AME Roberts (WI)
JN Gillespie (Aus)
MG Johnson (Aus)
D Gough (Eng)
IT Botham (Eng)
M Morkel (SA)
CL Cairns (NZ)
WPUJC Vaas (SL)
N Kapil Dev (India)
GD McKenzie (Aus)
Which suggests that
a) The Windies had the best bloody bowlers
and
b) Jimmy is 5th in the England list (which, oddly, Fred doesn’t make, having taken only 78 wickets outside England (at a very decent average of 26, it has to be said))
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Quite right Clive. Playing the numbers game doesn’t always give one a true record of greatness. Botham was an all rounder and just so good. Jimmy is good but not in same league.
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Etheridge and Wilde were on TMS with Wilson and Aggers. One of Ethery and Wildey – not sure which – was stating that Alec Stewart couldn’t be the new supremo coz he’s been retired too long. Like he’s been in his bathchair for a decade. Like he hasn’t been encouraging the players with whom he works at Surrey to score lots of runs and take lots of wickets. I smell the aroma of a pro-Straussy lobby in effect there.
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Indeed! And it is very worrying to even hear Strauss’ name mentioned in this context. He’s old school and behind the times. I suppose the support for Strauss is in order to keep KP out. Or am I just getting too cynical?
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Apologies – I put this in the wrong place, above. Meant it to go here….
Etheridge and Wilde were on TMS with Wilson and Aggers. One of Ethery and Wildey – not sure which – was stating that Alec Stewart couldn’t be the new supremo coz he’s been retired too long. Like he’s been in his bathchair for a decade. Like he hasn’t been encouraging the players with whom he works at Surrey to score lots of runs and take lots of wickets. I smell the aroma of a pro-Straussy lobby in effect there.
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I’m doing this replying thing wrong. I meant it to go at the bottom of the thread. Now I’m replying to myself. D’oh!
Anyway, Alec Stewart… some press don’t fancy him because he’s a bit 50. I’ll get me coat.
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The ‘cold storage’ thing has messed the comments up and now new ones appear in the middle. HTH. HAND. Or rather HANE (assuming you are in England)
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I didn’t catch the start. Who was spouting the nonsense about KP? Apparently no one with any influence at the ECB wants KP back.
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As I see it, the only way KP is coming back is if someone gets injured, or Root goes back to open. Otherwise can’t see them changing the middle order.
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I wonder if we’re seeing the end of an era. Fortress Chanderpaul is falling… Shiv’s had serious dips in form before, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen him so vulnerable to essentially average spinners (Tredwell and Root). I’m going to miss his limpet like defiance, but I think the WIndies are going to miss it even more.
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He’ll have a few Tests left to rage against the dying of the light. Can’t remember him failing against us very often.
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Windies batting like they just don’t care. 😦
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I hope Thepoetseye understands that any mild mockery on here is the affectionate recognition of one cricket tragic by a group of other cricket tragics.
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Like that 😊
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Quite.
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Living the dream!
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Sorry… #livingthedream
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And why not? Smart man!
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Funny old game. One the one hand Windies have thrown their wickets away (Smith, Samuels, Blackwood). On the other, England’s bowlers are creating plenty of chances.
Broad seems to be bowling well (better than Anderson) from the Guardian OBO.
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Yeah Colin talk nah… possibly?
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Is KP distracting the England bowling?
24 overs to stalemate.
Taking a positive from this we could draw by about 100 runs.
Fair play to Prometheus Tredwell, he’s putting a big shift in. Wickets, though… wickets.
I don’t have Sky. Do we have men on the rope?
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BBC Website: Tredwell begins his 34th over of the innings- and Michael Vaughan isn’t happy at England’s field, with a man positioned on the point boundary even though West Indies need more than 150 more.
Time for Root??
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Time for Colin to get his disaffectometer out.
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There seems little I can do other than to say I want all people that want to, to comment on this blog, and without wanting to come over as a Bertie Big Bollox, my decision here is final. There’s no code of conduct etc. I don’t have pre-moderation for a reason – that I trust you lot.
JackieL/thepoetseye is a great writer, an interesting read, and yes, a Bell obsessive that can be amusing. If it comes across as mean-spirited, it isn’t meant to be. If she, and I didn’t know she was a she, wanted to come on here, she’d be welcomed. I was a bit uncomfortable with a pseudonym’s real name being put on here, that’s all.
If people wish to make a big deal out of this, then that’s their issue I’m afraid. I’d think after the last year or so, you know where I’m coming from and it isn’t a bad place.
That’s my last on this matter.
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We all have our codes of conduct Dmitri. You have just enforced yours. 🙂
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zero – you enforced yours on Dmitris blog
It his right to do the same
lets move on
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Can we just stop this? A polite request. These things get out of hand….
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I did not enforce anything Boer and I cannot enforce anything. It is not my blog. My comments can be moderated and removed but I cannot do the same to Dmitri’s or anyone else’s comments.
Furthermore the post was entirely neutral. It was informative and criticized no one.
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At the moment of typing England have batter 196 overs for 17 wickets lost, West Indies 220 overs for 16 wickets lost.
I know that’s not how tests is decided, but it shows how well-matched the two sides are.
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Jason Holder is a really impressive prospect, isn’t he?
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Still think England will win. One will bring the rest of them. Jimmy looks like he’s getting some reverse.
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That still is a reasonable suggestion. The pace attack’s lack of craft is a concern though.
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And as I write Jimmy bags Ramdin with a beaut of a leg-cutter. Well bowled sir!
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Very skillful stuff. That reverse swing teed it up all right,
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Well done Mr Anderson!
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Can’t help it, but I feel ridiculously dispassionate about this match. I’d have been climbing the walls in rage a couple of years ago.
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Its a real catch 22. I cannot and do not want to see England do badly, but at the same time, there are too many folk who need to be walk the plank.
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This rear-guard has banished any doubts in my mind about cheering on the Windies. Go the underdogs!
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OK. 10 to go. 60 balls. How many of them will Roach and worse have to face? Holder doing a bit of a Waugh.
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Roach is no muppet. Might do that for the other two though (even though Taylor, as we all know, has a test ton to his name).
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If I was in sight of a maiden test ton, I know I’d be working to try and get it, and maybe taking the odd risk I shouldn’t be taking. From this side of the screen, though, I bloody wish he’d just block it up! 36 left…
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What the fuck has been going on here? These comments make no sense.
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I don’t know how it works, but I think that what’s below has been put aside by our host. Replies to a deleted post, in a way.
From what I’ve understood, there’s one more comment he might want to hide that’s still there at the moment.
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Twelve balls. When you read this you’ll know the result, and be a bit more analytical than I am now. Great stuff. Windies deserve the draw, although some luck has been ridden. Imcan’t feel sorry for England, though I’m in no position to say if they should’ve done better.
And there’s the hundred for Holder. A decent all-rounder is born! Test cricket! 9 to go. Must be…
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Wow! What a knock from Holder. Really thought England had done it midway through the afternoon session but you just have to say take a bow! Credit due to others in the lower order too.
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What a finish! Test cricket. Well done Holder, well done WI.
The 130 overs must have taken something out of the England bowlers though.
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Oops Boer, you’ve given them an excuse for the second test.
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OK, that was quite exciting actually.
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Don’t get too carried away Maggie 🙂
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LOL, never really got why people go excited over a sport where you played for five days and it ends in a draw, but it was hands-over-eyes-can’t-watch time at the end, and I was following the updates on Cricinfo!!
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And there it is. Well done West Indies. All their batsmen turned up, apart from my mate Brathers. It’s their moment. Great work.
My only remotely analytical thought is that, in Cook’s place, I’d have given Broad three overs at the death. He’s the guy with the magical spells in him. That’s enough from me for tonight.
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Jimmy comes over quite well in that interview at the end there.
I think it reinforces in me the feeling of how much the selectors/coaches/brains trust are to blame for the England predicament…
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Anyone not see this moment of pure class from Derek Pringle on Twitter? As the test match reached its climax, Derek’s mind was on other things than what was happening in the middle:
And in case we didn’t get the point, he followed it up with:
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No one gives a fuck about whether Pringle was humble or not, because he wasn’t good enough.
Likewise I couldn’t care less about whether Anderson is humble or not, because he clearly is.
He let’s himself down on occasion by being a brat in the field. But he’s a damm fine bowler. As said elsewhere the finest English bowler of his generation (since Gough, I think. We’ll never know how great SiJo could have been)
Someone else lets himself down by being a dick from time to time. But he’s a damm fine batsman.
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And this is the real me folks, warts and all! Picture is also me in Australia’s Barrier Reef! Too old to care.
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