England vs Australia: 4th ODI Open Thread

After the demolition of the Australian bowling that was either magnificent or an illustration of the continuing descent of bowlers into batsman fodder, depending on perspective, it’s off to Chester-le-Street for the fourth match of a series England have already won.

As so often with cricket, as much interest can be found in what is happening off the field, and the release of the Future Tours Programme for 2018-23 (having left it a mite late) is something to which we’ll return.  Much of the content has been trailed heavily – the creation of a World Test Championship and an ODI League for example, but perhaps the most striking thing is how for England, Australia and India, playing each other will take up around half of their entire Test playing programmes.  It appears familiarity and boredom with the same opponents is not a factor to be considered.

Comments on today’s ODI and whatever else takes your fancy below.


58 thoughts on “England vs Australia: 4th ODI Open Thread

  1. Angus Jun 21, 2018 / 10:52 am

    Hi Dmitri, Angus from Hong Kong here. Been a long time. I agree; who would be a limited overs bowler these days? Don’t think you can read much into these results given that Australia’s 3 best bowlers are injured.
    Nice to see Malcolm Conn back to his usual BS self. Such a chip on his shoulder, that bloke.
    Also agree re the schedule – seems a bit lop-sided.


    • LordCanisLupus Jun 21, 2018 / 11:49 am

      Hi Angus, Good to hear from an original follower before I got publicity and so forth.

      I am one of four main writers now, and probably given my output recently, the fourth of four. So Chris was responsible for the above intro post, not me.

      Malcolm Conn was in great form this morning. “How many World Cups have you won” followed by “need to look at the Ashes scorecards”…. It was lovely. Ali Martin’s response was particularly amusing.

      Hope all is well in HK. Who knows, maybe I’ll get to go there again one day.


      • Angus Jun 23, 2018 / 9:02 am

        I gently reminded him that we are current world champions as he clearly doesn’t count the women’s game as meaning anything – plus, as we are talking shit-form cricket, how many times has his beloved mob won the T20? I should be back in London over the summer (mostly split my time between HK and Fiji these days) – will PM you via Twitter (I’m @samsiga – don’t ask) and we can catch up for a beer hopefully.


  2. Mark Jun 21, 2018 / 11:56 am

    Australia unveil their new bowling attack……


  3. AB Jun 21, 2018 / 12:35 pm

    My 70-year old dad phoned me up yesterday to talk about the cricket and the world record score. I got a bit confused when he kept mentioning South Africa, until I twigged he was talking about the women’s cricket.

    Sign of progress that a lot of people, even old men, now follow the two games pretty much equally, without even feeling the need to qualify it as “women’s cricket”.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. oreston Jun 21, 2018 / 12:48 pm

    What? There’s ANOTHER ODI???


    • quebecer Jun 21, 2018 / 3:10 pm

      There is? Seriously?? Surely not us against Aus again. That would just be stupid.


      • oreston Jun 21, 2018 / 5:48 pm

        With the news of the 2018-23 FTP it looks like my diminishing interest in international cricket (or at least the ECB’s various Elevens) is going to ebb away to nothingness from sheer ennui. It comes to something when England’s solitary test against Zimbabwe next summer looks like a breath of fresh air. Is it too much to hope that they’ll head hunt Andy Flower while they’re over here and persuade him to take charge of a newly established elite performance academy (or some shit like that…)outside Bulawayo? I’m daydreaming, aren’t I?


        • oreston Jun 21, 2018 / 8:38 pm

          Oh well…
          Having read D’Arthez’s news below it seems I really was daydreaming.


  5. d'Arthez Jun 21, 2018 / 3:03 pm

    In other news, the scheduled tri-series in Zimbabwe (Zimbabwe, Pakistan, and Australia), will see the host without their best players, because Zimbabwe cricket cannot be bothered to pay the players. Again. Again. Again. What they can be bothered with is engaging in match fixing, if the ACU reports are to be believed. Not that that is actually a problem, judging by the response from the ICC thus far.
    Sikander Raza had signed to play in a T20 league in Canada, but cannot get a NOC. Which he still needs despite ZC being in flagrant breach of contract (not paying salaries and such is a breach of contract).Obviously, it would be too much to ask from the ICC, to make that requirement null and void, in case of a board breaching the contract. And it is certainly beyond the ICC to make certain that players of Full Member nations get paid, one way or the other.
    Thus it is not out of the question that Raza retires from international cricket. And with others probably soon to follow. Any county interested in hiring the likes of Cremer, Brendan Taylor, and a host of others?


  6. quebecer Jun 22, 2018 / 12:32 am

    The English batting was without doubt, qualitatively better than it has ever been in limited overs cricket. Some of that was just phenomenal. I know everyone’s down on this series (and quite right too) but the danger is that we miss the pure pleasure of seeing batsman hit the ball so perfectly and cleanly that it takes the breath away, and instead only see the negatives. We miss out when we do that. It’s like all those people who hated KP so much they couldn’t take pleasure in watching him bat.

    In the last game, Punter said after a Roy hook shot that landed many rows back that is was just the right height for the shot. He then added that it was still an 88mph bouncer and that really shouldn’t be underestimated.

    Essentially, we really shouldn’t underestimate just how special this England batting has been,


    • Sri.Grins Jun 22, 2018 / 3:16 am


      I agree with you.

      With a lineup of Roy, bairstow, hales, buttler, morgan, root which is capable of scoring 400+ doing
      and then Ali, Rashid, Willey, Wood, Waokes etc who can also bat if required, England are doing very well and are in a zone of their own.

      The last two wins have been dominating wins which is expected of this team

      To now talk of the negatives of the series, I am tired of the constant Oz baiting by English fans.I can’t see much difference between what the Aussies tried to do (as per steve waugh and adopted by the Oz press gleefully) and what the english fans are doing now, constantly talking ill of the Oz team. I find it tiring.


      • Mark Jun 22, 2018 / 11:17 am

        Most people were fed up with the Aussies antics. Including many Aussies. People were fed up with the Hollier than though attitude of its players and management. Dishing it out, but crying foul when they were called on their own issues. The ever moving white line of what was acceptable that only the Aussies got to judge.

        When the SA crowd baited David Warner it was not very pleasant, but most people had a deep sense that he had it coming to him. And when he got caught cheating days later, many people piled on. Certainly the commentators in NZ were piling on during the NZ vs England tour. So were the SA media and the English media, and most importantly the Aussie media.

        Mr Smith and Mr Bancroft who sat in a press conference giggling like little girls at the beginning of the Ashes when they revealed the antics of Bairstow thought it was so funny to tell tales out of school, and that they were being ever so clever. Well, they weren’t laughing when they were the ones forced to answer for their own misdeeds.At least Bairstow didd cry like a baby.

        The Aussies are like the school bully who got his just deserts . , . It was the whole culture that was rotten. If not, why did the Aussie board sack the coach, the captain and suspend three players?


        • Sri.Grins Jun 22, 2018 / 11:26 am

          Sorry Mark,

          I am not comfortable with the concept that ‘they behaved badly. so, it is fine for us to go haywire and kick them when they are down and keep kicking them’.

          Liked by 2 people

          • thelegglance Jun 22, 2018 / 11:28 am

            That’s not why. It’s that they behaved badly for years, and all the time they behaved badly they lectured everyone else and pretended that they weren’t behaving badly at all.

            It’s not what they did, which surprised few and bothered less, it’s the hypocrisy of it.


          • Mark Jun 22, 2018 / 2:50 pm

            I haven’t gone haywire or kicked anyone Sri.

            I’m laughing, as I’m entitled to do at their predicament which they got themselves into after lecturing everybody else for years about what was acceptable behaviour. And at the same time lauding it over most of us.

            Believe you me……if the boot was on the other foot, the Malcom Conns of this world would be piling in on us pomms.

            The rivalry between us and the Aussies goes back a very long time. Try Looking on line at the communications between Indian and Pakistan fans. It’s not exactly civil. In fact some of it is very unpleasant and with little or no humour.

            Most of what is going down between Aussies and pomms is just banter. They will recover, they always do.


        • dlpthomas Jun 22, 2018 / 12:08 pm

          The coach wasn’t sacked, he resigned (and was promptly given another job). However, I think you can make a pretty good case that he should have been sacked.


        • Sri.Grins Jun 22, 2018 / 12:32 pm


          Life is full of ups and downs and so Oz fans get a chance to lecture us or trash us again when (as is likely) we make a mistake or get thrashed and then we insult them again when they stumble and then they get back at us again when we fall.:-)

          Seems a pretty funny game to play. 😀

          There is a huge difference between good humored banter and aussie sledging. Currently, a lot of the English fans are into aussie style sledging and no reason can be adduced to justify it.


          • thelegglance Jun 22, 2018 / 12:34 pm

            You’re still rather missing the point. It’s not about the to and fro when winning or losing in this case. That’s just normal.

            Australian pompous holier than thou lecturing was endlessly tiresome. They deserve all they get for that. All of it.


          • Zephirine Jun 22, 2018 / 2:36 pm

            I think part of the trouble is the endless propaganda about the Ashes and how Australia are the most important team for England to beat and vice versa. It makes everything too personal.


    • Sri.Grins Jun 22, 2018 / 3:19 am

      the more apt word is probably tiresome thought it is tiring to read such comments as well. 🙂


    • thelegglance Jun 22, 2018 / 7:53 am

      Yes, that’s fair comment. I can’t get thrilled about all the ODIs that are context free in the heart of the summer, but this England batting order is something special.

      And oddly enough, the slight fragility where you know they will usually pummel sides but have the tendency to fall in a heap once in a while makes them more appealing.


      • Mark Jun 22, 2018 / 10:52 am

        “This England batting order is special.”

        It is on flat pitches, which increasingly the ECB serve up for mass slaughter. As we saw in the CT semi final last year however, when the pitch is not flat England are one dimensional.

        And as The ICC are responsible for the World Cup pitches next year in England and not the ECB we will wait and see if they can repeat their current feats.


        • thelegglance Jun 22, 2018 / 10:53 am

          Who produces pitches that aren’t flat these days? It’s the nature of ODI cricket. No team picks its batting order on the basis of expecting a green seamer or a bunsen.


          • Mark Jun 22, 2018 / 11:22 am

            Well they didn’t produce one in Cardiff last year.

            The pitch wasn’t that bad to be fair, but it wasn’t a feather bed. And England completely malfunctioned when they couldn’t just belt every ball out of the ground.


          • thelegglance Jun 22, 2018 / 11:23 am

            Theyre going to lose some games, no matter what the surface is. England play a high risk, high reward kind of cricket.


  7. S. Sudarshanan Jun 22, 2018 / 11:54 am

    Perhaps Australia are too weak a side currently to even compete. NOt that much would have been different with the presence of say, Starc, Hazlewood and Cummins, when your leadership isn’t too inspiring in itself. Perhaps Tim Paine isn’t the right guy to head the limited overs set-up for the Aussies. Generally, the Australians are known for their fighting spirit and never-say-die attitude. But all of those seem missing on this tour.

    Coming to the other hot topic about tracks & high-scoring games, I feel the game is heavily skewed in favour of the batters’ these days. Won’t be a surprise to see a new comer choose a bat over a ball, keeping in mind the bashing the bowlers get these days. Maybe it’s time to get back to the ‘old’ ways of using just the single ball in an ODI, which gives them at least something to work with at the death. Our sport is meant to be an equal between the bat and the ball and that’s largely missing these days.


    • Mark Jun 22, 2018 / 3:01 pm

      This is a great point. The game has always been a balance between bat and ball. Now the emphasis is on sixes and fours, not a balance between bowlers and batsman.

      I can’t see much point of being a one day bowler soon with flat decks, reduced boundary’s, and field restrictions.

      But hey, people seem to love it, and just sitting in a deckchair watching the ball go over their head endlessly is what they want. Not sure it provides much of a contest though.

      Liked by 1 person

      • S. Sudarshanan Jun 22, 2018 / 3:28 pm

        Not sure if the majority of viewers love the run fest indeed. Perhaps with not much choice left, they return an impression of loving what they’re being served as opposed to what they want. Plus, humans are reduced to mere bowling machines which is sad to see. Also, the 250-280 games are more interesting as opposed to a 350-400 one, because it keeps both the sides in the game more often than not.


        • thelegglance Jun 22, 2018 / 3:47 pm

          I always think this is an interesting question, partly because I suspect what we’d like to believe might well be wrong.

          I have a sneaky suspicion that the casual spectator, on TV or in the ground, really does just want to see the ball disappear to all parts and cares not a jot for the bowlers. To that extent, I fear it is symptomatic of the usual chase to lowest common denominator.

          Actually, I’d say the most thrilling games aren’t even the 250-280 ones. They’re the ones where 120 all out wins by three runs or 1 wicket, and where every run is precious. But what do we know, we only love the game…


          • LordCanisLupus Jun 22, 2018 / 3:53 pm

            It’s great that when England do something extraordinary we do look to find fault with the circumstances surrounding it. Like the 2013 Ashes for instance…


          • thelegglance Jun 22, 2018 / 4:12 pm

            Quite. In fact, I think the most extraordinary thing England have done this series is to ask every other team in the world “so how many do you think is ‘enough’ when you play us?” .

            They’ve created a fear factor. They have done for a couple of years in ODI matches now. Opponents will overreach and lose wickets precisely because of that awareness that England can chase down anything. And I mean anything. That’s a massive statement.


          • Mark Jun 22, 2018 / 4:37 pm

            I’m sure that is true legglance. It’s only some of us grumpy gits that have an issue. The matches seem sold out for this series. Even though Aus have turned up with no bowlers. The public is loving it. Or at least the ones who are going. And yes, they do seem to like watching from the hospitality beer tents who can hit it the furthest.

            Which reminds me about golf. Like the new technology in the bats, the golf clubs allow players to hit the ball miles. In some cases making 100 year old courses almost useless. Give Butler one of VIvs or Botham bats and see how he gets on.

            The appeal to the lowest common denometer is why they are pushing 16.4. Why not get rid of runs all together, and just see who can hit it the furthest? Crickets very own version of javelin throwing. It’s still six if it goes 65yards or 100 yards.

            Bar humbug.


          • Mark Jun 22, 2018 / 4:43 pm

            Was the 2013 Ashes extraordinary?

            I thought England were quite over rated. Which is why it was not completely surprising what happened a few months later down under.


          • LordCanisLupus Jun 23, 2018 / 9:06 am

            They won a home Ashes series 3 nil. I have not seen that level of scoreline in my lifetime. Sure the signs were there but we made it sound like we scraped it rather than win the big moments which sport is about.


          • Mark Jun 23, 2018 / 9:35 am

            I think the problem was that when the Aussies arrived on these shores it was on the back of homework gate. Their camp was in total disarray, and the coach was sacked and a new one appointed almost immediately after touching down.

            In addition, pundits were predicting a 10-0 combined score line for the two ashes series. Australia were regarded as a joke. After all, we had just beaten them 3-1 in 2010/11. (The so called greatest ever)

            We forget just how dismissive of Australia we were. Yes we won 3-0 but some of those matches were much closer than was expected. We lost the first 2.5 days of the Durham test to Aus before Broad swung the match in 2 hours. We would have lost the Manchester test but for the rain.

            I know what you mean about the score line but our batting was very shakey. I remember Boycott saying if we play like that in Aus we will lose, and we did.


          • OscarDaBosca Jun 23, 2018 / 8:18 pm

            I know what you’re saying Mark, but the prediction of 10-0 was Botham not everyone, and we did enough to win the crucial sessions, which is what all test cricket is about.
            Nottingham was close, but only because of a last wicket stand, without that it would have been a battering, We were behind after one innings, but scored loads in the 2nd, then Agar made it seem closer than it was. Lords we were so much better, but everyone seems to remember Root being dropped rather than scoring 180, Old Trafford had too much left to play to be sure it wouldn’t have ended in a draw. Durham we were behind again after 1st innings, then Broad did what he does one test match in an Ashes series.At the Oval we could have won had the umpires not applied the rules 😉
            So 2013 was an excellent series and we were worthy winners.


  8. dlpthomas Jun 22, 2018 / 12:12 pm

    The current side seems very “un-English” in their approach. Firstly, they’re ruthless and secondly they seem to value a bowlers strike rate above his economy rate,

    If the world cup was next week, I’d fancy our chances. However, a lot can happen in 12 months – players loose form, players get injured, the ECB changes the rules and lets Archer play.


  9. dlpthomas Jun 22, 2018 / 12:24 pm

    From King Cricket’s email update.

    England’s big fixtures in 2021
    January-March: five Tests against India
    July-September: five Tests against India
    October-November: World T20
    November onwards: The Ashes

    What could possibly go wrong?


    • alecpaton Jun 22, 2018 / 12:51 pm

      Nothing at all. Provided one is a fan of India, and in particular Australia.

      Fully predict that at least one (and possibly all) of Bairstow, Root, and Stokes will be totally and permanently crocked by the end of the Ashes


  10. Benny Jun 22, 2018 / 2:07 pm

    I’m going to play a bit of devil’s advocate (no Mr Graves, that’s not intended to be defamation of character)

    I watched a fair bit of the ODIs on TV and, indeed, it’s rather like watching action replays. However, most of us feel that sitting in a ground and enjoying a live game is a great experience. So those fine, much mistreated folk at Durham got their day and there were even women and kids, who snuck in under the ECB radar and were having fun. Not often that England’s crowds over the years have been treated to our batsmen doing a McCullum to the opposition.

    On a different note, when a batsman hits a glorious boundary in front of you, you get the full benefit. When a bowler mixes up his leg breaks a googlies and bamboozles the batsman, you don’t. If you’re sitting square on to the wicket, you won’t know.


  11. Mark Jun 22, 2018 / 5:05 pm

    You go from the sublime to the ridiculous with England football, and cricket reporters. The contrast is stark. On the one hand you have stenographers who openly lie for the governing body. (Cricket) On the other hand you have a bunch of boarder line traitors who revel in undermining the England team, and have made a sport out of it for forty years.

    Perhaps a half way house between the two would be good. Anyway the media wanted a fight with Southgate. He is too nice ( they keep telling us) So now they have the reaction they wanted.

    Of course they will all plead that they want the team to succeed, and that they sell more papers when England win. (Not for most of the four years inbetween world cups they don’t) If the wheels come off now the media have their story.

    By the way, in nearly fifty years of watching England in world cups I have never met anyone who needed to know the team two days ahead of the kick off. Never. Everyone seems happy to wait for the official announcement. It’s only the media who obsess about it. It’s a game they play among themselves. Who can get the team first. They are like demented children.


    • oreston Jun 22, 2018 / 7:05 pm

      We can safely assume that considerable journalistic resources have been devoted to trying to find something really juicy on Southgate. If the best the papers can do at this point is snap a possible team sheet for the next game with a long lens it does suggest that they’re a bit desperate – which you can tell by the way they then tried to sell the (non) story as a “leak.”


      • thelegglance Jun 22, 2018 / 7:16 pm

        Twitter is of course representative of nothing but itself, but it’s truly startling to read the universal condemnation of the press for releasing the team information. In fact the only people defending it are the journalists.

        Where it gets interesting is the question of repaying the access England have given by doing this, given how the ECB control it. It’s kind of ironic – the ECB seem far better at it than the FA are.


        • oreston Jun 23, 2018 / 11:04 am

          The ECB are certainly much more “effective” at keeping the press pack compliant (which I imagine is what you meant, TLG) and their so-called leaks are, as we know, finely calculated moves. I don’t think either governing body’s relationship with the papers is “better” (in the sense of making a value judgement). They’re just two very different kinds of madness. In the case of the cricket, the tame press eats from the ECB’s hand. In football, the papers now and then go feral. A middle way with some objective, responsible journalism would be nice.


          • thelegglance Jun 23, 2018 / 11:05 am

            Oh it was laced with sarcasm, never doubt it!


          • LordCanisLupus Jun 23, 2018 / 1:21 pm

            Beautifully done.

            Liked by 1 person

          • thelegglance Jun 23, 2018 / 1:28 pm

            Presumably journalists defending their right to publish stuff would be entirely happy with us writing up things that they’ve told us over a beer.

            After all, that wouldn’t be a breach of trust at all, would it…


          • Mark Jun 23, 2018 / 2:21 pm

            Well said Mark Butcher. The media know all sorts they don’t report because it is beneficial to them to keep quiet.

            So the pompous lectures about reporting what they see is clap trap. Anyway, it’s good to see the media aren’t behaving in anyway like footballers when called on their bad behaviour. (Snark) Absolutely no lashing out at the fans, oh no. Grown up to a fault… ha ha

            Once again the word “trust” emerges. Remember that? The media are always saying that Players and governing bodies should be more open and trust the journos? Well the first time the team drop their guard, the media pounce.

            I see Mr Holt is getting his knickers in a twist. Remember when he was sent to Bangladesh to do a hatchet job on Morgan? He couldn’t even report what was right in front of him accurately.

            These football journos have let it all go to their heads. They have their own profiles now, and probably have their own agents. They wear Alice bands and try to look like their hero’s. Some even try to ape the latest ludicrous fashions. And worst of all they have their own shows. Entire shows where they are the stars! Every Sunday morning on Sky they have there own f***** show! Unbelievable!

            You can bet the first show of next season they all pat themselves on the back and confirm to themselves they have done nothing wrong, and it’s all the fans & players fault. Celebrity journalists. Is there anything more cringing?


          • Mark Jun 23, 2018 / 5:41 pm

            The media are making complete arseholes of themselves now. They are the most pompous low lifes you can find. They are now desperately clinging on to Southgate attempt to down play the issue. Trying to claim some moral victory. They are off their heads and drunk on power,

            Because as ever with the media it’s always about them. Me,me, me is the English media. It’s always about them. And right at the top of the tree is Ollie Holt. A santamonious tit.

            When England lose, as they will at some stage the moron media are going to pile in. I hope it chokes them. Perhaps if a few lost their jobs it might teach them to stop being so sanctimonious.


          • LordCanisLupus Jun 23, 2018 / 6:52 pm

            Holt called Arlo White sanctimonious earlier today.

            That has been my personal highlight.


          • Mark Jun 23, 2018 / 5:50 pm

            Ollie Holts twitter feed is a work of art tonight…..My personal favourite is…

            “have you done a DNA test to see if william roache is your dad yet?”

            Me thinks the media have over estimated their worth. They don’t handle criticism very well do they? Bit rich when they lecture others on how to behave.


  12. Mark Jun 23, 2018 / 6:08 pm

    5 live imposes female commentator for tonight’s Germany game for no reason other the identity politics……..I immediately switch over to golf and ITVs coverage.

    Glad I’m not in my car otherwise it would be over to talk sport. Shame, I used to love 5 live, but they are slowly ruining it.


  13. d'Arthez Jun 23, 2018 / 7:52 pm

    Over in the West Indies, where the West Indies are 1-0 up in the series, Sri Lanka are in disarray, and rain was forecast, West Indies chose to bat first. Straight from the Strauss playbook no how not to win a series in South Africa (2010/11).
    12/3, within 7 overs is what follows, and a rain break now.
    Sri Lanka will be mightily pleased with that.


    • d'Arthez Jun 23, 2018 / 9:31 pm

      Sorry, that was 2009/2010.


  14. Mark Jun 23, 2018 / 8:09 pm

    If that football match tonight was a cricket match there would be serious allegations about match fixing.

    Unbelievable. Did Sweden really want to lose? They played like clowns in the last ten minutes with a man advantage. No wall for the free kick. It smells like the Eurovision Song Contest.


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