The First ODI v Australia

Sorry for the lack of posts. I won’t lie, but really had better things to do this week. There won’t be an update until tomorrow night at the earliest.

However, we have the first ODI today and I’m sure you will all want your say! I’m a bit worn out with it all!

I have the final Ashes panel to put together, I went to Surrey v Derbyshire on Tuesday and there will be the end of season poll, including the prestigious “worst journalist” award. No nominations in advance, please!

Speak soon.

Dmitri

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55 thoughts on “The First ODI v Australia

  1. Rooto Sep 3, 2015 / 8:55 am

    Worst time for the ODI side. They can only get worse from the unexpected high of the NZ series, and so far from the next World Cup. Aussies can’t get any worse. Cook’s not playing, so they’re on a hiding to nothing. Feel sorry for them.

    Like

    • metatone Sep 3, 2015 / 9:18 am

      Yeah – my own reaction was – Australia again? Oyyyyyyyyy…..

      At least it looks like it will stay dry – going to be nippy in the outfield when the sun sets tho…

      Like

      • d'Arthez Sep 3, 2015 / 10:00 am

        Well, as Andy Zaltzman wrote, the result of these matches will be known after one day’s play each as well. In terms of quality they can hardly get worse than the Test series, unless whoever bats first gets bundled out for 50 odd on every occasion.

        After the conclusion of this series:

        Since January 2005, England have played 86 times against Australia in bilateral series. 63 times against India. All the other major nations are on 39 (South Africa) – 43 fixtures (New Zealand). Bangladesh are on 12, Ireland on 5, and Scotland on 3. It is rather convenient for the ECB that there is a sporting ban in place against Zimbabwe – as it gives them more slots to fill the calendar with more ODIs against India and Australia.

        Similar trends, albeit less extreme can be observed with regards to Tests, and ODIs. India have played 37 ODIs while Australia will be on 40 – in other words, these teams play as many ODIs against England as other major teams get across formats.

        Only T20Is are not dominated by the Australia – India axis. Undoubtedly that has to do with the fact that India play the fewest T20Is among the big nations.

        Oh, and before anyone brings up the merit argument: Only Sri Lanka and Australia have W/L ratios of better than 1 in each of the three formats against England (irrespective of home and away scheduling). Across formats Sri Lanka have a W/L ratio of 1.85, followed by Australia at 1.48.

        Now, if we only look at fixtures in England:

        Australia lead the way by an eye-watering 53 – 28 of those are ODIs.

        India is next with 30, and all the other major teams are on 20 (South Africa) – 26 (Sri Lanka). Bangladesh trail the pack at 7. Zimbabwe (obviously), Ireland and Scotland do not even register a single fixture. Oh, and in case you were wondering ONLY Sri Lanka has a W/L record of greater than 1 in England (2.14 – which is excellent).

        Oh and only South Africa (4.00) and Sri Lanka (1.00) have W/L ratios above 0.40 (Australia in third spot) in Tests. Now, it should be completely obvious why India (0.29) deserve to play 5 Tests ahead of South Africa in England, or why South Africa only got three Tests in 2012, to accommodate the often neglected Australians in ODIs, right?

        Like

  2. metatone Sep 3, 2015 / 9:31 am

    As an aside prompted by looking at the Southhampton weather report – here’s a heretical thought – maybe if cricket is to survive in the long term, we need much better grounds – like expensively better.

    I’m no fair weather sports follower per se. Between following Doncaster Rovers through their troubled times after Chairman Richardson burnt the stadium down and they fell out of the League and plenty of time spent as a sport photographer. (Most photo pits don’t rate a roof.) Well, I’ve spent plenty of time braving the elements in the pursuit of watching sport.

    The thing is, football/rugby you’re basically talking a couple of hours exposed to the elements. Some hot tea and a couple of beers will see you through.

    2pm to 9pm in September? When 60% of the ground is about on par for comfort with the Flavian Amphitheatre of 2000 years ago? For £70?

    I’m sure it will be fine for the next few years, but I really wonder if this setup has a long term future.

    Like

    • OscarDaBosca Sep 3, 2015 / 3:30 pm

      Having recently been to the Flavian ampihtheatre (last week), at least the weather in Southern Italy is a lot hotter on average.

      Like

  3. Jamie Sep 3, 2015 / 9:31 am

    I’m actually more excited by the one dayers than the Test series. Should to be a good challenge for the side.

    Like

  4. SimonH Sep 3, 2015 / 10:34 am

    1) Australia have been on tour since late May.
    2) England have won every home ODI series in the year after a World Cup since 1996 bar one (a 2-1 defeat by West Indies in 2007).

    Conclusions:
    1) Not too much should be read into today’s result (whatever it should be).
    2) The ECB are just the governing body you need to organise victories just after the ones that really matter.

    If selected today, Shane Watson will be playing his 42nd ODI against England. ABDV has almost an identical number of career ODIs and has played against England exactly half as much.

    Like

  5. SimonH Sep 3, 2015 / 12:46 pm

    Australia won toss and bat. Everyone thinks the pitch is going to be an absolute road.

    Australia play same team as in Ireland which means only Maxwell to bowl spin. England prefer both Woakes and Wood to Willey and drop Moeen Ali back down to No.7 which appears pretty difficult to understand to me.

    Like

    • hatmallet Sep 3, 2015 / 12:53 pm

      Great that Taylor is back in the team, though personally I’d have opened by Ali and Hales with Taylor at 3.

      Willey out is an odd decision. But they’ll rotate. Woods won’t play the five games.

      Like

  6. d'Arthez Sep 3, 2015 / 12:53 pm

    To add to that. AB de Villiers has played 20 games in England (7 Tests, 10 ODIs, 3 T20Is) in England over the course of his career (bilateral series only). Amla (7 Tests, 8 ODIs, 2 T20Is), and Steyn (5 Tests, 8 ODIs, 2 T20Is) follow even further behind.

    By the end of the series that could be 9 Tests, 28 ODIs and 4 T20Is) for Watson in bilateral series in England.

    So England have seen more of Watson in England than they have of AB de Villiers and Dale Steyn between them. Sounds about a fair appraisal of world class cricketers …

    Like

    • Arron Wright Sep 3, 2015 / 1:50 pm

      And Watson played two more Tests in England (against Pakistan in 2010).

      The proportion of his Test career played in England is 18.6%, which is approximately three times that of Steyn (6.3%). A few weeks ago I analysed the proportion of Tests played in England by all quick bowlers with 400 Test wickets (excluding Anderson, obviously). Steyn was bottom; Shaun Pollock was the only other man below 10%; those two were also the only ones to have played fewer than 14 Tests here (13 between them, as it happens); Ambrose was top with just over 20%; everyone bar the two South Africans had played between 14 and 21 matches in England.

      Watson would have been second in that table, ffs….

      Like

      • d'Arthez Sep 3, 2015 / 2:27 pm

        Since readmission:

        The only South African bowler to have played more than ten Tests in England is Ntini (11). Next up on that list are Donald (45 @23.6 and Shaun Pollock (34 @25.3) with 8 Tests each.

        Kallis (15). Boucher, Kirsten and Smith are the only other ones to have played 10 or more Tests in England, since South Africa were readmitted. The first two are also the only South Africans to have featured in more than 34 games in England.

        That seems very reasonable. Until you realize, that that includes a few ICC tournaments. If we exclude those, Kallis leads the pack with 26 games. 22 for Boucher and 20 for AB de Villiers.

        By the end of the current series, Steve Smith will already be on 25 appearances in England (12 Tests, 11 ODIs, 2 T20I) – from bilateral appearances only!

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      • Arron Wright Sep 3, 2015 / 2:55 pm

        I haven’t got time (at work) to check, but how close is Watson to playing as many games (all formats) in England as Allan Border or Steve Waugh? He’s had four full Ashes tours (the same as both AB and SW), even though he didn’t play Tests in 2005, and then the 2010 series v Pakistan with ODIs v England, 2012 ODI series, 2004 and 2013 CTs.

        Can anyone confirm whether he’s anywhere near?

        Even if he isn’t, I’m sick of the sight of him. Next summer will be the first in England without either Shane Watson or India since 2008.

        Like

  7. d'Arthez Sep 3, 2015 / 3:12 pm

    Bilateral series only:

    Watson is now playing his 33rd match in England. Border played 38 matches in England. Steve Waugh played 31 matches in England. Clarke is the leader with 43 matches in England. Viv Richards is the first non-Aussie with 38 fixtures (3rd, but over the course of a long career). Greenidge and Dhoni are the only other non-Australians in the top 10. Even Tendulkar has not made it with 29 fixtures over a 2-decade career.

    If we add in ICC tournaments, the figures are:
    Watson: 44 (including today’s fixture – could end up as 5th on the alltime list if he plays in 2 or more of the remaining ODIs – Jayawardene is on 49)
    Border: 45
    S. Waugh: 41
    Clarke: 52 (shared most often appearing in an international cricket fixture in England)
    Viv Richards: 52
    Ponting: 52

    The figures with ICC fixtures are less dominated by Australians.

    Like

    • d'Arthez Sep 3, 2015 / 3:13 pm

      That was meant as a reply to Arron, obviously. It seems that my browser / add-ons have some issues with wordpress. Sorry for the slight annoyance.

      Like

    • d'Arthez Sep 3, 2015 / 3:34 pm

      Sorry, I really butchered the stats there.

      Ponting: 61 (including ICC tournaments):
      Clarke: 58
      Viv Richards: 55
      Mahela: 53
      Kallis: 48
      Watson: 48
      S. Waugh: 47
      Border: 47

      Discrepancies arose because of the Australia- Pakistan fixtures in 2010.

      Likewise, Clarke is on 48 fixtures in bilateral series in England. No other wrong figures reported.

      Like

      • d'Arthez Sep 3, 2015 / 3:48 pm

        I am having a bad day. I missed the Pakistan series for Watson. So Watson is on 37 bilateral fixtures in England. If he plays one more game after this, he’ll be joint second with Viv and Border.

        The top 10 contains seven Aussies (Clarke, Border, Watson, Ponting, Syd Gregory (!), Rod Marsh and S. Waugh), Viv, Greenidge and Dhoni for bilateral series only.

        Like

  8. d'Arthez Sep 3, 2015 / 3:16 pm

    And Rashid showing, again, that it would have been an idiotic idea to include him in any of the Ashes Tests. Taking the first four Australian wickets (Burns, Warner, Smith, Bailey) in the innings, clearly showing that he’d be a lost cause before he could even be tried, right Mike Selvey?

    Liked by 1 person

    • OscarDaBosca Sep 3, 2015 / 3:32 pm

      Bowls too slowly for test cricket apparently….

      Liked by 1 person

      • SimonH Sep 3, 2015 / 4:45 pm

        Selvey can take several angles here:
        1) Rashid had good figures in the first NZ ODI but was then “worked out” (as opposed to having to bowl on a series of roads).
        2) Rashid took his wickets because of the pressure built by the saintly Mo at the other end (as if good ER isn’t limited without also taking some wickets).
        3) Admit he was wrong (as if…….).

        I reckon it’ll be the first. Of course one could say a bowler whose Test record was 4/41, 2/111, 0/67, 0/44 and 0/80 knows a thing or two about being “worked out” but then that idea only ever seems to be applied to spinners and never to seamers. With a seamer it’ll always be put down to “unhelpful conditions”.

        Liked by 3 people

    • OscarDaBosca Sep 3, 2015 / 3:36 pm

      annoyed that the OBO is now criticising his wickets as not proper because some have been off a full toss. Does the wicket column read 1/2 for a full toss? It is poor journalism that smacks of an agenda. I guess the paper that states 43 is worth a half-century, 80 is worth a century would make wickets off a full toss only 1/2 value, I assume a leg-side strangle is only worth 1/4 a wicket?

      Like

      • metatone Sep 3, 2015 / 7:32 pm

        Yes, that annoyed me too. Warne got plenty of wickets with full tosses – it’s the nature of the game.

        Further, I feel that given the relative amount of wicket taking in this innings shows how Rashid (as he does for Yorkshire) represents a threat in conditions that don’t suit other bowlers so much.

        The Tests at Lords and The Oval should surely be indicators that this might be something worth investigating?

        Like

      • Zephirine Sep 3, 2015 / 7:36 pm

        Warne was full of praises for Rashid on Sky, (but of course what would he know compared to Mike Selvey?)

        And there was an almost seditious subtext to the half-time interview with Rashid when he was asked if he was bowling well because the captain backs him.

        Liked by 1 person

  9. Boz Sep 3, 2015 / 4:46 pm

    Being thoroughly bored with English cricket I have the following questions to ask for my and our edification –

    1. Do Sky commentators ever die or do they go on for ever and ever and ever …..?

    2. Will England ever run out of public schoolboys?

    3. Are the ECB waiting for Wood to have an unrepairable ankle injury before they decide on surgery?

    4. For all the fine stats presented here, whilst they have a lot of creedence, what are these players like in the nets – surely a more rounded view?

    Liked by 1 person

    • d'Arthez Sep 3, 2015 / 5:22 pm

      1. Actually everything they say was recorded in 2009. You are just being put through highly sampled sound bites. That is why at times the general public is still wondering if Vaughan has a brain, as he lacks all coherence. Just bad sampling.

      2. No. I could expand on that, but given the public nature of the blog, it is probably better not to.

      3. No. He’ll have to pay that for himself. ECB won’t be liable for that. What? Workers rights? That is so 20th century.

      4. I could put up the Moores quote after Headingley Day 5, 2014 … Magnificence is a nebulous concept, and bestowed on those of whom it can be said that it is politically expedient that they receive such blessings. However, that is an insufficient cause to think one’s back is reasonably covered. Ask Peter Moores.

      Like

    • SimonH Sep 3, 2015 / 5:47 pm

      On 4) we can safely say that, if management like the cut of a bowler’s jib, he’s bowling near his best and, if they don’t, he’s bowling pies.

      Like

    • Badger Sep 3, 2015 / 11:36 pm

      I’m a bit fed up with the public school bashing on here, although as mostly ex-grauniads I can understand why you think that way. Rest asssured Giles Clarke would have been considered a twat at whatever school he went to.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Boz Sep 4, 2015 / 8:38 am

        It’s not about ‘public school bashing’ per se, although they are ripe for targetting – it’s about the gross imbalance between public and erm, public – that is England team made up of 75% public school boys who may only represent 5% of the nation’s population – go figure

        What makes you think I’m an ex-Guardian reader,bit fed up with that myself too

        Like

      • Zephirine Sep 4, 2015 / 11:48 am

        Hi Badger, I always feel the same about ‘Oxbridge’ as a term of abuse 🙂
        However, I have to say that when I went to, ahem, an Oxbridge college, it was the first time I’d ever met people who’d been to ‘public’ school or boarding school, and I did find they were very different animals from us provincial grammar-school kids, with a very different perception of how society worked and how it could work for them. Though many were extremely nice.

        In cricket though, it’s a different issue, obviously, about facilities. The preferred solution seems to be to get talented kids a scholarship to a public school so they can have all the coaching and facilities available there, cf Jordan and indeed Cook. I suppose this is what happens in other spheres too, such as classical music. But it leads to a certain perception of the game.

        Like

      • Badger Sep 5, 2015 / 7:57 am

        It is a problem, but you can’t blame the public schools for the fact that the state schools have decided to dispense with sport.

        Like

    • Grumpy Gaz Sep 3, 2015 / 8:13 pm

      “Drop-in pitches are set to be used at the new stadium – which will primarily house Perth’s two Australian rules football clubs – which has created some concern that Perth’s unique pitches will be lost to Ashes contests.”

      That’s just sad.

      Like

      • metatone Sep 4, 2015 / 7:25 am

        It is sad – there’s a lot of history being left behind.
        OTOH, big stadia with better facilities show a commitment to fans.
        More people can see the game…

        Like

  10. Rooto Sep 3, 2015 / 6:22 pm

    Looked at the Aussie scorecard. First impression – good score. Second impression – too many 40s and 50s, which means it must be a road. I’d expect this England ODI side to catch that 7-8 times out of 10.

    Happy to have that impression. 6 months can be a long time.

    Like

  11. pktroll (@pktroll) Sep 3, 2015 / 7:03 pm

    I have only really seen the England innings and from near the 10th over onwards. Enjoyed some of Roy’s innings and Taylor is now playing quite decently too.

    Like

    • Grumpy Gaz Sep 3, 2015 / 7:05 pm

      Watson showing his class again… oh, wait…

      Like

  12. SimonH Sep 3, 2015 / 9:58 pm

    I’m struggling to understand why Woakes was in the starting XI – or even in the squad. By my reckoning, he has played 3 CC, 3 List A and 3 T20 games since returning after a long injury lay-off and hasn’t scored a fifty or taken a four-for in any of them.

    His List A record is mediocre and while his BTL defenders always mention his two six-fors they seldom mention his ODI bowling average (35.5) or his ER (virtually 6).

    Chris Jordan has a better List A record, has been back from injury a little longer and is a much better fielder.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Grumpy Gaz Sep 3, 2015 / 10:21 pm

      You are applying logic to a selection proces that is heavily influenced by the Director, Cricket’s Christmas card list.

      Liked by 1 person

    • OscarDaBosca Sep 4, 2015 / 5:25 am

      I’ve never understood why Woakes is in either the ODI side or how he got in the Test side. To (Mis)quote Selfey ‘he bowls too slow for international cricket’.

      Like

      • pktroll (@pktroll) Sep 4, 2015 / 8:15 am

        A little bit unfair on Woakes re his first class record. He has an outstanding record with ball and indeed bat. He has done less well in list A., which probably makes his selection less valid.

        Oh and Selvey is wrong re his lack of speed over the last couple of years. He probably doesn’t do enough with the ball though.

        Like

    • paulewart Sep 4, 2015 / 6:08 am

      ‘They like him’.

      Like

  13. metatone Sep 4, 2015 / 7:37 am

    Said it above, but the bowling figures for England either highlight Rashid’s qualities, or the failings of the rest of the attack – depending on how you prefer to look at it.

    As for the batting – not good, but not that bad. The top order started to look the part, despite relative inexperience. Morgan battled hard despite being out of form. He blows so hot and cold these days, we really need to find him a guru or hypnotist or something. Woakes – undercooked with bat and ball, as SimonH notes, you wonder if he should have been given more time before being picked. Buttler – massively out of form, let’s hope he can get back in the groove. I wonder if the intensity of the summer is wearing him down.

    Overall, Australia well deserved winners. And despite many changes, having the core of the WC winning side, you’d expect that to be the case…

    Like

  14. SimonH Sep 4, 2015 / 8:28 am

    I’ve read every post-match article in the Guardian, Mail and Independent after England’s loss.

    Not one of them mentions Andrew Strauss.

    Why am I not terribly surprised…..?

    Like

  15. SHERWICK Sep 4, 2015 / 8:38 am

    Interestingly, at 160-2 after 26 overs, we were well ahead of the game (more than double the score after fewer than 30 overs and having wickets in hand).

    I had better look at the data again…

    Like

    • metatone Sep 4, 2015 / 10:30 am

      Think it highlights (as in the WC) the importance of taking wickets, esp. when bowling 2nd.
      6 wickets (for example) brings Woakes to the crease.
      Even on form, where he can bat pretty well, you’ve still got a player at the crease less experienced at dealing with the pressure of a chase…

      (Of course, the clatter of wickets was also a failure in the batsmen… three in four balls will do most teams in…)

      Like

    • northernlight71 Sep 4, 2015 / 11:56 am

      If you examine the data closely, you’ll find out that England actually won the game. Really.
      I know, I couldn’t believe it either.

      Like

  16. SimonH Sep 4, 2015 / 9:14 am

    England seamers’ combined bowling figures:

    32-0-208-1.

    Like

    • metatone Sep 4, 2015 / 10:56 am

      Right, but they all bowl faster than Rashid…

      Like

      • SimonH Sep 4, 2015 / 11:42 am

        I’ve no problem with him sitting it this series but if Broad has been permanently pensioned off from ODIs it’s crazy.

        Like

      • metatone Sep 4, 2015 / 12:03 pm

        I was hoping (perhaps naively) that for once they had seen sense with Broad’s workload.
        Maybe you’d disagree, but I’d say the priority for this year has to be to get him to the SA Test series without picking up another injury.

        Like

      • Boz Sep 4, 2015 / 5:40 pm

        “…………….. to get him to the SA Test series without picking up another injury.”

        unlike Wood ………….

        Liked by 1 person

  17. Boz Sep 4, 2015 / 5:45 pm

    You know what, I don’t give a toss about any of these players – they earn more than most people will in a lifetime ………… I’m off for some delicious homemade, homegrown apple crumble and a good bottle of dessert wine …. and what’s all the fuss about Bunbury’s …. claim 60 former Bunbury’s are England cricketers ….. is this a working class outfit or what????? Leopards never change their spots – cricket in England remains a middle class/upper class game, is exclusive rather than inclusive and as far as I’m concerned they can have it!

    Like

  18. wrongunatlongon Sep 4, 2015 / 8:49 pm

    I went, god I hate getting to/from the Rose Bowl.

    It was cold. Really cold. I’m not a bloke who feels it, usually. I almost left a jumper at home. Glad I didn’t.

    The perception at the ground was that we let them off from 190-6 and perhaps ought to have squeezed more overs out from Ali vs Wade in particular. The seamers were getting nowhere – Wood felt more expensive than Woakes, as at least Woakes had the excuse of bowling at the death. I thought Finn was marked as our premier bowler in the format, so giving him 7 overs was odd.

    Then the run chase started and we were well in it for ages, probably until Taylor got out, and from there we never got going again. Ali’s position was all wrong though, England got tied up with Buttler in (wtf is wrong with him at the moment!?), and it left too much to do. Rashid surely ought to have come in pre-Woakes, too?

    Like

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