159 thoughts on “The Ashes 2nd Test – Day four discussion thread

  1. LordCanisLupus Jul 19, 2015 / 9:58 am

    Thanks TLG…. This lazy sod couldn’t get his fat arse out of bed.

    Day 4 – Always England’s strong point.


  2. OscarDaBosca Jul 19, 2015 / 10:12 am

    Maybe we could bowl at whoever we perceive is the strongest player to give them an easy single so we can concentrate on getting the other player out. Didn’t that work against Sri Lanka?


  3. SimonH Jul 19, 2015 / 10:16 am

    Is there any news on Voges? He didn’t field all day yesterday after a blow in the ribs at short leg.

    Rogers is having to retire with apparent dizziness as I’m writing that. Hopefully it isn’t related to the blow on the head he took on Day Two. He missed both Tests in the WI from concussion after being hit in the nets.


    • d'Arthez Jul 19, 2015 / 10:28 am

      Let’s hope it is nothing serious. And that he’ll be fit for the remainder of the tour.

      At least Shaun Marsh got a couple of games in the West Indies as a make-shift opener, but I personally think Lehmann (and other Aussie selectors) highly overrate him. I’d certainly be thinking that England rather bowl to Shaun Marsh than to Rogers …


    • SimonH Jul 19, 2015 / 11:28 am

      Voges not come in at No.5 but TV has shown him on the team balcony padded up so he must be reasonably okay.

      The blow he took was more on the hip than the ribs of course.


  4. thebogfather Jul 19, 2015 / 10:20 am

    A lot of talk about our regular top order failings and who should be replaced by who, but possibly of even more concern is how many of our bowlers aren’t fully fit. Stokes (side-strain), Wood (ankle), Mo (various- still not fit from earlier in season) and Anderson (not sure exactly what but his action seems stiff and his landing leg not as natural position as usual) – who would come in to replace them?

    Liked by 1 person

    • SimonH Jul 19, 2015 / 10:45 am

      Finn (for one) seems certain to play at Edgbaston.


  5. dvyk Jul 19, 2015 / 10:30 am

    I hope I’m not breaching any protocol by posting Arron’s brilliant comment from the Guardian (linked to in the previous thread). Replying to a rather poisonous pro-Cook/anti-KP commenter…

    Hello there. Rather than throw around a load of insults, I thought I’d do some actual researchnto England in “situations like the current one” over the duration of Alastair Cook’s Test career. Let’s call that “batting in the first innings under scoreboard pressure”. Let’s impose a cut-off of 400. Want to see the results?

    Top England scorers when batting second facing a deficit of 400, reverse chronological order:

    Ian Bell, v Aus, Adelaide 2013/14, 72* (Cook 3)
    Joe Root, v Aus, Oval 2013, 68 (Cook 25)
    Kevin Pietersen, v Aus, Old Trafford 2013, 113 (Cook 62)
    Matt Prior, v NZ, Auckland 2012/13, 73 (Cook 4)
    Matt Prior, v Ind, Ahmedabad 2012/13, 48 (Cook# 41)
    Kevin Pietersen, v SA, Headingley 2012, 149 (Cook 24)
    Kevin Pietersen, v WI, Edgbaston 2012, 78 (Cook 4)
    Jonathan Trott, v SL, Cardiff 2011, 203 (Cook 133)
    Ian Bell, v Ban, Dhaka 2009/10, 138 (Cook 21)
    Graeme Swann, v SA, Centurion 2009/10, 85 (Cook 15)
    Kevin Pietersen, v Ind, Mohali 2008/09, 144 (Cook 50)
    Paul Collingwood, v NZ, Hamilton 2007/08, 66 (Cook 38)
    Paul Collingwood, v SL, Galle 2007/08, 29 (Cook# 13)
    Ian Bell, v Ind, Oval 2007, 63 (Cook 61)
    Ian Bell, v Aus, Brisbane 2006/07, 50 (Cook 11)

    You will note that Cook’s name does not appear once, meaning that yesterday was the first time he’s top-scored in an England first innings facing an opposing score of 400-plus. The famously selfish Kevin Pietersen has managed it four times over the same period, and so has the famously spineless Ian Bell. It seems that, in the current situation, Kevin Pietersen is worth approximately four Alastair Cooks. Who would have thought it?

    Friendly caveat:

    # Cook made a second innings hundred in the follow-on. No-one is stupid or blind enough to ignore the fact that he is England’s best hope of saving games in the second innings. We leave the stupidity and blindness to you.



    • Arron Wright Jul 19, 2015 / 10:48 am


      Just as when I compared the second half of Flower’s tenure to England’s thoroughly mediocre 2005-08 era (and found exactly the same number of wins and losses), I really didn’t expect to see Cook draw a complete blank. But there you go. Myths die hard.

      Even if you don’t stipulate top scores, you find that Pietersen scored three hundreds under scoreboard pressure to Cook’s one. And two of those were in his period of (massively overstated) “decline”, with Mohali right on the cusp.

      Liked by 2 people

    • LordCanisLupus Jul 19, 2015 / 11:30 am

      I think some context is nice…. these are the sorts of comments that get me peeved.

      I see the kiddies from the KP fan club have awoken from their afternoon nap. I wonder, at what point does a childlike refusal to accept that things have changed permanently become a dangerously unhealthy and irrational obsession? If they ever develop a more mature understanding of Test cricket, these people might realise that, in situations like the current one, one Alastair Cook is worth half a dozen KPs (what a horrible thought!).

      Liked by 1 person

      • Mark Jul 19, 2015 / 12:10 pm

        The stupid just drips off morons like this. Even when they have the figures right in front of them they are too clueless to understand.

        The ECB lackeys are like inmates of a lunatic asylum. Reality does not exist. Only blind obedience to their leader.


      • Simon K Jul 19, 2015 / 4:35 pm

        No point getting peeved. The facts speak for themselves.


  6. Sherwick Jul 19, 2015 / 10:38 am

    Australia have now scored over 700 for the loas of only 8 wickets in this match.

    Over 3.5 innings we have got 28 wickets.

    Over 3 innings they have already got 30 wickets.


  7. thelegglance Jul 19, 2015 / 11:00 am

    Warne absolutely will not shut up this morning. It’s total verbal diarrhoea. It’s reminiscent of Dermot Reeve….


  8. Sherwick Jul 19, 2015 / 11:03 am

    72 runs in the 1st hour at a canter..


  9. dvyk Jul 19, 2015 / 11:24 am

    7-2 field, Broad bowling wide of off, and Smith takes 15 off the over. Not Broad’s fault either.


  10. d'Arthez Jul 19, 2015 / 11:44 am

    And so it ends on 254/2d, after 49 overs. Just a target of 509, from 155 overs. Provided the weather gods don’t ruin things.

    Ten tricky minutes for the opening batsmen to lunch.


  11. SimonH Jul 19, 2015 / 12:10 pm

    Selvey set the Twitter bar low today. Can anyone get under it?


    • Mark Jul 19, 2015 / 12:24 pm

      It was always all about the IPL and the money KP could earn. It drove all the little people bat shit insane. Their jealousy still burns bright.

      It’s funny how all these establishment Tories all prefer a socialist system of wages for the workers. They have created an entire fake narrative to hide their petty jealousies, and the green eyed monster.



      • metatone Jul 19, 2015 / 1:11 pm

        And of course, the ECB now admits that KP was right, English players need to be in the IPL to keep up with developments in the short form of the game…


    • amit Jul 19, 2015 / 1:40 pm

      No one can compete with DP in this “i am an idiot” contest on twitter. He wins hands down. consistently proves he’s a prick by the contempt he shows to others.


    • LordCanisLupus Jul 19, 2015 / 3:33 pm

      I love that he gave it all that to a professional golfer who has won two senior major championships. Roger Chapman is a much nicer man than I am.


  12. SimonH Jul 19, 2015 / 12:20 pm

    “And sales of widgets in the West Midlands were up 13.2% in the fourth quarter…..”


    • Mark Jul 19, 2015 / 12:41 pm

      High, I’m Simon Hughes, and today I will be seeing how many balloons on a string you can get into Lords under the dress code restrictions.


    • BoerInAustria Jul 19, 2015 / 1:27 pm

      “…Cooke has obviously been done well…”
      Where were these Investec Test Trackers the last 18 motns?

      Liked by 1 person

  13. dvyk Jul 19, 2015 / 12:24 pm

    I just read a few sentences of that Paen to Cook (Opus 317, No. 2) from Selvey. I wonder if it embarrasses him to write that stuff.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Arron Wright Jul 19, 2015 / 1:15 pm

      It should. Especially now he’s out chasing a wide one.

      Liked by 1 person

  14. d'Arthez Jul 19, 2015 / 12:59 pm

    So, Lyth did not succeed again. So, are Bayliss and Cook give him more time, are we going through one of the previous discards (Carberry, Compton, Root, Robson), or a pick from left-field?

    Playing Trott in the West Indies as an opener is looking like an increasingly poor decision.

    Liked by 1 person

    • metatone Jul 19, 2015 / 1:14 pm

      I feel sad for Lyth because if he’s dropped he’s unlikely to get another chance.
      At the same time, his mind is clearly not in the right place to take on bowlers of this quality, he’s playing at balls that normally he would let pass bay. So I think he has to go back to CC and put some time in. I don’t know if there are enough games before the next Test for him to get his form back. If not, you’d imagine someone else will get a shot.

      And yes, just like everything else on that WI tour, it was a poor decision.


    • ArushaTZ Jul 19, 2015 / 1:16 pm

      There are no other openers left in England. The next best opener is Stoneman at Durham, but his career average is pants and he’s hardly banging the selectors door down with runs this season. They have to stick with Lyth for at least two more games.


  15. SimonH Jul 19, 2015 / 1:08 pm

    I’m laughing hysterically.

    Is that wrong?

    Liked by 3 people

    • Simon K Jul 19, 2015 / 4:38 pm

      Laughing hysterically no. A sense of grim satisfaction yes.


  16. d'Arthez Jul 19, 2015 / 1:10 pm

    And Cook did not succeed either. Nicking Johnson through to the keeper. Not exactly the most dangerous ball a batsman can face, but scrambled minds can work wonders for bowlers …


  17. amit Jul 19, 2015 / 1:12 pm

    The messiah is gone. Oh No. What will Selfie now write about? Oh i know what. Cook saved the game (nearly) bleeding to death in process.

    Liked by 1 person

    • metatone Jul 19, 2015 / 1:14 pm

      Better hope someone scores more than 95 in this innings, otherwise we’ll get the full “Cook battled, but let down by the rest of the batsmen.”

      Liked by 1 person

      • amit Jul 19, 2015 / 1:28 pm

        well he did score more than 100. didn’t he? That it was in 2 innings, will be conveniently omitted.

        Liked by 1 person

  18. ArushaTZ Jul 19, 2015 / 1:14 pm

    I’m not happy with the amount of stick Nasser was giving Lyth for getting out. Now Saint Cook gets out in a much worse way, there hasn’t been nearly as much criticism. If anything, they’re making excuses for him.

    Liked by 2 people

    • SimonH Jul 19, 2015 / 1:39 pm

      100% agreed Arushatz. Hussain had gone on for 10 mins about the Lyth dismissal saying that he should have left it. Never once did he mention it was a bloody good ball from Starc. Atherton felt he had to give some defence of Lyth pointing out the quality of the delivery and the difficulty of leaving the ball on length on this pitch.

      When Cook was out to a much wider delivery Hussain’s first reaction? “That’s top quality fast bowling”. It was (and is there anything better?) – but the double standards are nauseating.


      • amit Jul 19, 2015 / 1:46 pm

        Lyth was at least out to a good ball. Cook’s was a bad shot, given the situation. But yeah, we won’t hear of it.

        Liked by 2 people

  19. pktroll (@pktroll) Jul 19, 2015 / 1:16 pm

    Have the likes of Pringle and Selvey not figured the irony of them calling others ‘sycophants’ given the unadulterated horse manure that they dished out about Cook for a long time when he did x to the amount of **** all as a batsman and even more damaging as a captain? I hugely doubt it?

    A dreadful shot 2nd innings but I really expect them to try and whitewash it and talk about only his admittedly good first innings and of course sidestep the inconvenient truth about his record in home ashes.

    Liked by 3 people

    • amit Jul 19, 2015 / 1:23 pm

      Wishful thinking my friend. That will not happen. They will never be able to accept that they were wrong. The professional reputation will be tossed away. at least whatever is left of it.


      • pktroll (@pktroll) Jul 19, 2015 / 1:28 pm

        I realise that. Mainstream journos seem to visit here, one or two who have announced themselves of course, maybe one or two who come here undercover? I don’t know but they deserve to be called out on it.


  20. amit Jul 19, 2015 / 1:17 pm

    Never bite the hand that feeds you. True every day.


  21. dvyk Jul 19, 2015 / 1:33 pm

    Excuses for Cook that I predict:

    He’d batted 6 hours and been in the field for days and was tired; the Lord’s slope distracted him; the ghost that he’d put to rest with that brilliant 4 off Mitchell Johnson in during his majestic 11 in Cardiff came back and bothered him again but will be put to rest again in his next innings as soon as he hits a 4; he wouldn’t have been on strike if Lyth hadn’t thrown his wicket away; he can’t *always* be the one who puts his hand up and rescues England so it will be Bell’s and Root’s fault if they don’t bat until stumps tomorrow; he was only on strike because he knew Gary Ballance needed to be protected from Johnson; he was selfless and didn’t play a nice cosy red inker like Michael Clarke….

    Liked by 1 person

    • Arron Wright Jul 19, 2015 / 1:37 pm

      The third last one actually will be used, that’s the sad thing.


      • BoerInAustria Jul 19, 2015 / 1:46 pm

        RE “always the one” – From Guardian OBO (I copy since my spelling is so sh…):

        “Alastair Cook’s fortunes in the second innings are basically irrelevant to England, who have won or drawn 17 matches in which Cook has scored 15 runs or fewer in their second knock, and lost 20. And they’re actually significantly more likely to avoid defeat when Cook fluffs his lines in the first innings than when he doesn’t (23 won/drawn, 14 lost, after scores of 15 runs or fewer)”


      • dvyk Jul 19, 2015 / 2:00 pm

        That’s hilarious!


    • SimonH Jul 19, 2015 / 1:42 pm

      There’s also Scyld Berry’s one about he wasn’t bowled so it doesn’t really count.



  22. pktroll (@pktroll) Jul 19, 2015 / 1:40 pm

    I think the likes of Brett Lee and Adam Gilchrist have stopped watching the cricket. They have tweeted about an Aussie surfer who has fought off a shark at some surfing championship. There is tv footage that they’ve linked to. Both frightening and amusing at the same time.


  23. d'Arthez Jul 19, 2015 / 1:50 pm

    Mitchell Marsh making it only harder for Watson to ever get back in the side. England should have given Watson a meaningless century in the last Test …

    Liked by 1 person

  24. metatone Jul 19, 2015 / 1:51 pm

    Ballance out, again seemingly an unnecessary placement of the bat.


  25. SimonH Jul 19, 2015 / 1:52 pm

    8th time England have three down for 52 or less since the start of the WI tour.



    • LordCanisLupus Jul 19, 2015 / 2:22 pm

      Today’s answer is Moeen Ali either replacing Lyth as an opener, or batting number 3 and everyone drop down one, or drop a batsman and play Rashid.

      The answer my friend, is blowing in the St Lucia Trade Winds…


      • SimonH Jul 19, 2015 / 3:15 pm

        The ‘get Ali in at No.3’ lobby may have a bit of a struggle making many converts after that shot.

        And what is it with the speed gun? Johnson has respectable 88-90 mph readings but how Wood can be clocking quicker just defies the evidence of what anyone watching can see.


  26. paulewart Jul 19, 2015 / 2:00 pm

    Haven’t seen the cricket today so please, please answer the following questions:
    did Cap’n Cook sweat blood for the cause today? And did he deserve a century?



    • paulewart Jul 19, 2015 / 2:16 pm

      i posted this to The Guardian OBO with a choice anecdote about Finland to sweeten the pill. They didn’t publish it though. Surprise, surprise. The OBO used to be great, now its just another sycophantic outpost of the Selvey/ECB empire.


  27. Arron Wright Jul 19, 2015 / 2:07 pm
  28. Arron Wright Jul 19, 2015 / 2:09 pm



    • Arron Wright Jul 19, 2015 / 2:13 pm

      I’m trying to update you all on the Post-WWI worst regular England Ashes openers, but the link won’t post.

      Anyway, Giles Clarke’s favourite England captain (27.73) has fallen back below his least favourite (28.000.

      What a shame.


    • LordCanisLupus Jul 19, 2015 / 2:26 pm

      When a post has too long a link in it, it goes into pending. I’ve just released it.


      • Arron Wright Jul 19, 2015 / 2:28 pm

        Please delete the extra bumph if you can then.


  29. Boz Jul 19, 2015 / 2:23 pm

    just in from the Sunday barbie to find Cook’s England in a spot of bother, again, oops – none of them as good as our Alastair then, what sort of name is Alastair anyway?????????????? Good riddance England, you are not my country anymore…………bombing Syria without consent, removing FOI so you can remain incognito …. hope you die England

    Liked by 1 person

  30. paulewart Jul 19, 2015 / 2:25 pm

    The Guardian’s taking Cook denial to new levels. Lyon is bowling to him at this very moment apparently!


  31. Phil Jul 19, 2015 / 2:28 pm

    Strike rate of 0.9 for the last ten overs. Anybody got fifth day tickets? If by some miracle they last to tomorrow, you will get a stunning demonstration of one of England’s patented non-scoring captiulations and not get your money back. (How does that work anyway?)


  32. Arron Wright Jul 19, 2015 / 2:29 pm

    Andrew Miller on the cricinfo commentary:

    Sriraam: “Can we now talk about KP? We were asked to stop it yesterday! Let us imagine how it would be to have KP in the team – may be as captain? In some parallel universe, may be?” He’d play a dumb shot in this scenario and get out for 2. Next

    Probably worth a Dmitri disappointed Hmmmmmmmmmm, that…


    • LordCanisLupus Jul 19, 2015 / 2:40 pm

      Andrew has a lot further to fall, as he’s a good guy on most issues. But this defeat is more sobering than any of the others….

      Rama: “The problem with the English selectors and commentators (read – Miller) – they cannot accept their mistakes (with regard to KP). The last series he played he was one of their highest scorers if not he highest scorer. With regard to the dropped catch – it was voge’s but would have been a low catch (if it will allow the ego of english to publish this comment).”
      Ego, schmego. I was outspoken in my support of KP in his feud with the ECB. But his time has gone now.

      It may have, but it shouldn’t have. Anyway, we have for more deep rooted problems.


      • metatone Jul 19, 2015 / 2:46 pm

        Surely the performance of Rogers gives a lie to the “time has gone” nonsense.

        Liked by 1 person

  33. amit Jul 19, 2015 / 2:33 pm

    Stokes gone for a schoolboy error. OOPS.


  34. thebogfather Jul 19, 2015 / 2:34 pm

    damn Graves and his four day Tests…. looks like there’ll be a need for an early ‘ashes panel #06’ too !


  35. d'Arthez Jul 19, 2015 / 2:35 pm

    England are trying to lose by 400 runs here?


    • Boz Jul 19, 2015 / 2:37 pm

      they don’t have to try – chickens, roost, coming home ………..plus ca change

      Liked by 1 person

  36. Arron Wright Jul 19, 2015 / 2:36 pm

    Under pressure, New England party like it’s 1989.

    (three 80s song references in eight words!)

    Liked by 1 person

    • Boz Jul 19, 2015 / 2:39 pm

      bowie/queen, mccoll, prince …….. and the prize is????


      • Boz Jul 19, 2015 / 2:41 pm

        unless you refer to taylor swift and her album1989 but not 80’s song alas!!


      • Boz Jul 19, 2015 / 2:42 pm

        forget it, give it to Dmitri


  37. Mark Jul 19, 2015 / 2:43 pm

    ECB can’t even prepare a pitch to last 4 days let alone 5.

    Couldn’t happen to a nicer ground. ECB summer season. But do wear a tie. That’s terribly important


    • metatone Jul 19, 2015 / 2:46 pm

      You mean, can’t prepare a team to last 5 days…

      Liked by 1 person

    • d'Arthez Jul 19, 2015 / 3:04 pm

      The pitch would have lasted 5 days. That is what England would have needed to bowl a decent batting side out, just once. Pity that declarations are allowed …


  38. dvyk Jul 19, 2015 / 2:45 pm

    There really is a clear bias in the way Sky commentators talk about Cook. Atherton reading through the list of scores for England pauses with Cook and says “Cook *on this occasion* unable to contribute anything” (his emphasis).

    Selvey called Australia’s defeat at Cardiff “ignominious”. I will be paying attention to how he describes this (in case Australia do win). Whatever he calls it, it won’t be a defeat for “Alastair Cook’s team”, but rather for “England”.

    Liked by 2 people

    • amit Jul 19, 2015 / 2:55 pm

      You are right and will be the first one to call it. A leader cops it on the chin, when the team doesn’t do well but then we know Cook may be many things, a leader he’s not. So, expect this loss (should happen now, given the score) to be swept away under the carpet, with the glorious 96 being his only memory of the game.

      Liked by 1 person

  39. Phil Jul 19, 2015 / 2:52 pm

    Some of England’s biggest defeats. Were will they end up?

    Winner Margin Opposition Ground Match Date

    Australia 562 runs v England The Oval 18 Aug 1934
    WI 425 runs v England Manchester 8 Jul 1976
    Australia 409 runs v England Lord’s 24 Jun 1948
    Australia 384 runs v England Brisbane 7 Nov 2002
    Australia 382 runs v England Adelaide 11 Jan 1895
    Australia 381 runs v England Brisbane 21 Nov 2013
    Australia 377 runs v England Sydney 17 Dec 1920
    Australia 365 runs v England Melbourne 1 Jan 1937
    SA 356 runs v England Lord’s 21 Jul 1994


    • thelegglance Jul 19, 2015 / 3:00 pm

      That doesn’t include “an innings and….” defeats though.


    • LordCanisLupus Jul 19, 2015 / 3:15 pm

      I look forward to it! I shall add some seasoning tomorrow, in all likelihood.


  40. Boz Jul 19, 2015 / 3:02 pm

    England should sack Hardy’s and go for Red Bull or Lucozade


    • d'Arthez Jul 19, 2015 / 3:06 pm

      No invention by Dr. Guillotine that needed promoting?


  41. d'Arthez Jul 19, 2015 / 3:07 pm

    64/7. Seems that the England batsmen forgot to read the newspapers hailing this pitch as a road on Day 1.

    Liked by 1 person

  42. amit Jul 19, 2015 / 3:15 pm

    Johnson doing it again. watch out for more low bounce pitches.

    Liked by 1 person

  43. LordCanisLupus Jul 19, 2015 / 3:30 pm

    WIn a couple of matches as a consultant…

    Foul mouthed ****

    If Cook gave me a b*llocking, I’d laugh. Seriously.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Arron Wright Jul 19, 2015 / 4:22 pm

      I knew “Numpty Part 2” was incoming from somewhere. Has *any* MSM journo given Cook some due stick for his shot yet? And if 96 excuses him, why does 87 not excuse Stokes?


      • Simon K Jul 19, 2015 / 4:52 pm

        Because the 87 was an attacking innings which sought to wrest the initiative whereas the 96 was Cook’s usual exercise in refusing to bat, which has its function but which English reporters think is the only way test cricket can or should be played.

        Liked by 3 people

  44. metatone Jul 19, 2015 / 3:31 pm

    Broad out for 25.
    If Wood/Anderson don’t hang around, Root won’t get to catch up and Broad will be top scorer.


    • metatone Jul 19, 2015 / 3:32 pm

      Spoke too soon – Hazlewood does Root with a ball seaming in to hit off stump.
      Broad will be top scorer…


  45. Boz Jul 19, 2015 / 3:31 pm

    RESIGN NOW COOK before it gets worse!!


  46. dvyk Jul 19, 2015 / 3:34 pm

    Shot of Cook on the balcony with his nose in the air — “Why am I surrounded by these losers?”

    Liked by 1 person

  47. Boz Jul 19, 2015 / 3:37 pm

    Why is Cook eating his T-shirt? Is this the image of a true and trusted professional or that of a little boy who needs a pee but can’t find the toilet??

    Liked by 2 people

  48. SimonH Jul 19, 2015 / 3:38 pm


    Which bowler do we drop?

    Liked by 1 person

    • metatone Jul 19, 2015 / 3:42 pm

      I fear there will be bowling changes because of injuries…


    • metatone Jul 19, 2015 / 3:54 pm

      To be fair, Day 1 (Aus 337/1) was a pretty big warning sign over the bowling too.


  49. Sherwick Jul 19, 2015 / 3:39 pm

    9 down. Maybe rain will dave us? It’s the least Cookie deserves after his magnificentulous efforts in the first innings, surely?


  50. BoerInAustria Jul 19, 2015 / 3:41 pm

    Ed on BBC
    “I can scarcely remember an innings where a wicket looked less likely to fall than Australia’s innings. I can scarcely remember an innings where wickets looked more likely to fall than this England innings.”


    • LordCanisLupus Jul 19, 2015 / 3:59 pm

      He thought Mitchell Johnson looked like Don Draper. That was nice.


  51. Sherwick Jul 19, 2015 / 3:43 pm

    Cookie to invite the Aussies for a beer tonight?

    Liked by 1 person

    • escort Jul 19, 2015 / 5:41 pm

      With sour grapes and hard cheese perhaps?

      Liked by 1 person

  52. dvyk Jul 19, 2015 / 3:44 pm

    I can almost see Selvey tapping away in the press box — “Alastair Cook will be disappointed in the way his team performed….”


  53. SimonH Jul 19, 2015 / 3:45 pm

    Quiz question –

    What was the last close away win in an Ashes Test?

    (‘Close’ defined as, say, less than 150 run or 5 wicket margins).


    • metatone Jul 19, 2015 / 3:52 pm

      4th Test – 1998/9 ?


      • SimonH Jul 19, 2015 / 3:53 pm

        Yep – Dean Headley.


    • d'Arthez Jul 19, 2015 / 3:55 pm

      Melbourne 1998?

      Lord’s 1985?


      • SimonH Jul 19, 2015 / 5:35 pm

        It is one of the oddities of recent Ashes’s history that although away wins are relatively scarce when they do occur it has been by a crushing margin.


      • metatone Jul 19, 2015 / 5:52 pm

        I’ve written elsewhere in the past that even more than “home advantage” one of the oddities about Test cricket in recent years is that there are fewer and fewer close results, both in games and series. I put it down largely to the “back to back” scheduling that goes on now – it amplifies any weaknesses (esp. physical) in a team.


  54. Pontiac Jul 19, 2015 / 3:52 pm

    Even at this point there are complaints about the wicket. Amazing.


    • SimonH Jul 19, 2015 / 3:59 pm

      Fifteen minutes of ECB-TV analysis in and so far the result has been put down to the pitch being too bland or visitors being inspired by Lord’s.

      Hussain now blaming Lyth again. Then he’s asked if England have someone “who can take it to the Australians like Pietersen”. He suggests Bairstow – er, how about Pietersen?

      Liked by 1 person

    • metatone Jul 19, 2015 / 4:10 pm

      I think Shane Warne was being a little sarcastic about that towards the end there…


      • Pontiac Jul 19, 2015 / 4:19 pm

        At least I was happy to hear him mention the leaning jowler.


  55. dvyk Jul 19, 2015 / 4:01 pm

    Huh? Colin Graves still exists?


  56. Boz Jul 19, 2015 / 4:02 pm

    Has anyone seen Andrew Strauss?

    Liked by 2 people

    • metatone Jul 19, 2015 / 4:08 pm

      The architect of this particular triumph seems not to be taking the credit…

      Liked by 1 person

    • dvyk Jul 19, 2015 / 4:53 pm

      I was looking, but he’s been as hard to spot as Cook has been for post-play interviews these last 4 days.

      Liked by 1 person

  57. Zephirine Jul 19, 2015 / 4:02 pm

    So, this match has demonstrated how much England depend on Root.

    Liked by 1 person

    • metatone Jul 19, 2015 / 4:09 pm

      Also how vulnerable we are when the pitch doesn’t suit Anderson.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Arron Wright Jul 19, 2015 / 4:31 pm

      I look forward to it. Will you be sticking your fingers in your ears saying “nur nur nur” and announcing the Big Bash dates?

      Liked by 2 people

  58. Boz Jul 19, 2015 / 4:54 pm

    So, let’s get this straight – Australia score 800 runs and take 20 wickets – England score 400 and take 10 wickets and Nasser Hussein blames the pitch – right – can someone help me here or is the fine wine speaking … ? is this anhialation or not????

    Liked by 1 person

    • BoerInAustria Jul 19, 2015 / 5:05 pm

      What no one noticed each time before England batted..

      Liked by 1 person

  59. SHERWICK Jul 19, 2015 / 4:58 pm

    The worrying thing is that I think that Australia can and will get better…

    Liked by 1 person

  60. Arron Wright Jul 19, 2015 / 5:08 pm

    The quite extraordinary kpateldf24 thinks Cook would be “the best batsman in most, if not all, top fours in the world.” You could “toss a coin” between him and Hashim Amla apparently.


    • dvyk Jul 19, 2015 / 5:30 pm

      Well, to be fair, with coin tossing Cook would have a 50% chance of being as good as Amla. Although, he did lose four in a row in Aust the other year. I’d want to look at the data for that too!


      • SimonH Jul 19, 2015 / 5:43 pm

        “They were batted into oblivion, outbowled to an embarrassing degree, outfielded, and, in as much as Michael Clarke won the toss, outcaptained”.

        Jeez, I’d be embarrassed for a ten year old who showed that much petty vindictiveness. Clarke didn’t have to reinvent the wheel the way England capitulated but the changed use of Johnson and the tactics against Root were both vital parts of the win.

        Liked by 2 people

      • SimonH Jul 19, 2015 / 5:46 pm

        Followed by “Alastair Cook – looking desperately tired….. “.

        The poor lad (TM Paul Allott).

        Liked by 2 people

      • Arron Wright Jul 19, 2015 / 5:59 pm

        Simon, I was hoping someone would beat me to it. Thank you.

        He really is a nasty little piece of work. I hope Michael Clarke rubs his brown nose in it for the rest of the summer. It’s the least he deserves.

        Difficulties for a captain: some random people “abusing” you on Twitter. Totally irrelevant: a professional colleague dying, going on to win a World Cup, that sort of thing.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Arron Wright Jul 19, 2015 / 6:21 pm

        Even Simon Hughes (on C5) called Cook’s shot poor and unnecessary. No mention of desperate tiredness.


    • LordCanisLupus Jul 19, 2015 / 6:00 pm

      I’m worried. Have they killed wctt in the stampede to defend the indefensible. By they I mean Kpateldf and DDB.

      His defence of Cook when he patently isn’t even the best batsman in his own team (oh yeah, that Top 4 qualification eh?) is hilarious.

      Liked by 1 person

      • SimonH Jul 19, 2015 / 6:21 pm

        I see DDB has had a comment moderated – anybody know what it said?


        • LordCanisLupus Jul 19, 2015 / 6:24 pm

          I still had the old comment up…..

          You, sir, are an idiot.

          Cook’s captaincy is fine, it’s the best it’s been in his career but you want him removed because you have some problem with him.

          And every time England lose to say the same thing: that there’s a gap in class between the sides.

          You’re a stuck record, a guy who doesn’t even pay attention to what’s happening but just has a fixed set of remarks you want to make after every game.

          Why do you bother?

          That was it. To MS Cologne.


      • Arron Wright Jul 19, 2015 / 6:24 pm

        It was some “you and all da haterz” rant asking MSCologne why he bothers, I think.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Scrim Jul 20, 2015 / 8:44 am

        The bit where he said you could toss a coin to decide between who is better out of Hashim Amla and Cook was priceless.

        He’s also a head trauma specialist doctor because he knew better than the Australian team doctors who had actually examined Rogers and decided he didn’t need to go to hospital for a scan.


  61. LordCanisLupus Jul 19, 2015 / 6:10 pm

    Again. Another former player believes that we were all on board last week….. and turns on those who were calling us fickle.

    That’s the problem. Love the good times, lump the bad times.

    Liked by 1 person

    • metatone Jul 19, 2015 / 6:15 pm

      I’m not always fond of Shane Warne as a commentator, but he hit the nail on the head today. As he said, “you don’t mind losing to a team who plays better than you, but it’s the manner of this defeat, the way England folded at vital points in the match, that will bother England fans.”

      Liked by 1 person

  62. Boz Jul 19, 2015 / 6:16 pm

    ah, the joy of celebrities and oldtimers hey – they only go to Lords and only when it’s free!! Reminds me, last night I had gone to bed when the cat pushes against the door, runs into the room and jumps on the bed – then asks why England are rubbish at cricket – so I get the old subbuteo cricket cloth out and place all the fielders in position, namiing them as I go – that’s Jimmy Anderson and that’s Alastair ChoirBoy and that’s … he ate Stuart Broad ……..


  63. SimonH Jul 19, 2015 / 6:42 pm

    After Arron’s sterling Statsguruing on Cook’s home Ashes record I thought I’d look at another of Selvey’s chums:


    Also, second worse record since WW1 (although I had to raise the minimum qualification a little to get there). And I’d suggest Andy Caddick was up against some better batting line-ups.

    I’ll be pleasantly amazed if one MSM writer questions his performances so far, let alone his place. One decent spell (second new ball, first innings in Cardiff) is not what the most skillful player in the world (TM) of his type should be delivering. I also don’t see any questioning of his age whereas Bell, as a batsman, is supposedly barely able to play without a zimmer frame at 33.


    • Arron Wright Jul 19, 2015 / 6:49 pm

      Great stuff! Minimum 20 wickets doesn’t suggest much raising of the qualification – I assume the minimum 5 match criterion is the same as used in the batting list.


      • LordCanisLupus Jul 19, 2015 / 6:53 pm

        Without stat-mining too much, imagine if you take Trent Bridge 2013 out of that.


    • metatone Jul 19, 2015 / 8:07 pm

      Not only was Caddick up against some better batting line ups (and often with lesser support bowling due to injuries) but he also took more wickets.


  64. Arron Wright Jul 19, 2015 / 6:56 pm

    Boycott just said on C5 that he doesn’t think England will make changes for Edgbaston.

    His reason was interesting:

    “Strauss is the boss and that’s how he was as captain – reluctant to change things.”


  65. thelegglance Jul 19, 2015 / 7:07 pm

    Can I just say you’re all utter bastards – new points appearing in my inbox as I’m trying to write something, and then having to go back over and steal it include it in the argument.


  66. Ian Jones Jul 19, 2015 / 8:24 pm

    Ah Selvey, what a fearlessly insipid and partisan cricket writer.

    Perhaps a ceremony could be organized where several of his articles could be burned and the Ashes placed in a small container, in memorium of the death of British cricket journalism.

    Each year it could be awarded to the best cricket blog or writer thereof.

    I feel this idea has real merit.


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