So, there’s NZ vs Bangladesh coming up which theoretically has meaning (although I’m not expecting NZ to stumble.) Then there’s Pakistan vs Ireland.
Have to say I feel that the scheduling of the tail end of the tournament seems designed to amplify complaints about minnows (like England!) clogging up the works. It certainly doesn’t help that UAE play twice in the last 7 games and twice in 3 days.
Totally agree, though Pakistan bowlers v Ireland bat could be interesting, then of course there’s the chance to see the start of the new ECB/CEW/WAITROSE PLC four year plan (version 1.0) v Afghanistan…
I only just got around to reading the latest Mike Selvey article and the ending is pretty grim.
He lists out some young guns who could be the core of the batting for 2019 – and you can read it and feel hopeful. And then he says “however, the real problem is the bowling…” and that’s it.
That’s pretty ugly, because as bad as our batting has been, our bowling has been worse.
So to be told “the barrel is empty, the cupboard is bare” is pretty depressing.
And, as Dobell says, an indictment of Loughborough and Saker.
(Not sure why I’m putting this rant in reply to your comment TBF, it just worked out that way.)
As for IRE vs PAK – as always it feels like the big question is: “Which Pakistan team will turn up?”
If the bowlers are in the groove and the pitch isn’t a road, I have to say I think the European champions are in for a rough day.
Be fair, he couldn’t very well write an article about individual bowlers without conceding that he got the Finn situation so hopelessly wrong, without at least trying to analyse David Saker’s role, or without admitting that his precious Jimmy has had a shocker.
So instead he has a little pop at Jos Buttler for not finishing the job on Monday. Much easier.
Yes, I thought the pop at Buttler was rather out of order.
I’ve said it before, but most of the press seem to have had a wildly erroneous assessment of both our bowling and other teams (e.g. no respect for the Bangla seamers, all sorts of nonsense about spinners used to excuse the omission of Tredwell, etc.)
It’s a constant theme with him: his default “analysis” of defeat is the UAE 2012 redux. The lack of criticism for the bowlers during the 2013/14 Ashes – in spite of all those tail-end partnerships and an Australian 10-wicket average over *both* series of 450+ when batting first – drove me stark staring bonkers.
I haven’t read the latest Selfry, nor do I intend to, however, any list of a prospective team for England in four years time is a wild guess – same as the football team. If we’re talking batting then it could include 4 of (in no particular order) Taylor, Vince, Root, Ballance, Moeen, Buttler – and an as yet undefined opening pair (this applies to Tests as well). The bowling is definitely harder to choose – will Stokes recover as an all-rounder? Will Finn ever return? Where are the spinners/really quicks/rely on metronomes etc.?
At TBF, I wasn’t looking for a prediction on the bowling – just some sort of hope.
But it seems like that our vaunted setup isn’t producing that well at the moment.
I’m still the only one who thinks there’s something in this? (Look at Tom Collomosse and Lizy Ammon on Twitter as well). The Independent is the only daily to be covering it. Paul Hayward’s article in the DT has a dramatically different slant on a Pietersen return that suggests he’s been hearing things from someone.
Elsewhere, Mike Walters and Dean Wilson are must-reads in the Mirror. The Journo Awards were last night (Matt Lawson won SJA while Iain Herbert was recognised and the Guardian won next to nothing).
There is definitely more than rumour and rattling the cage to this… btw – has anyone heard what happened to KP being on TMS commentary team for some matches, as was reported widely prior to tournament? (Got to be better than Lovejoy)
TheBogfather – KP still starts commentary on TMS at the QF stage from what I’ve been reading.
George Dobell’s latest, while mainly focused elsewhere, does have this line tucked away:
“Whitaker, who not long ago said Pietersen would “never” play for England again, will meet the player shortly to discuss that very possibility”.
There is a great quote in there from Gillespie on the problem with English pitches. On the subject of Gillespie a number of outlets have headlines that Gillespie has ruled himself out of the England job – I haven’t seen one direct quote where he says that (he mentions some obstacles and his current schedule, that’s all).
Geoff Lemon has the whole exchange which is just comedy gold. Funniest thing I’ve read since Downton last opened his mouth. (Ramiz on Tasmania: “I wouldn’t call them simpleton, but….”).
SIMONH – I heard an excerpt on TMS between innings, where from FiveLive last night (chat involving, I think, Gooch, Vaughan, Ash Giles and Mark Butcher) Gillespie was asked on phone whether he’d be interested – he said he’d like to become involved in ‘an’ International team in the future, but maybe not just yet… (I was half listening at about 6.30 this morning so may have it all wrong!)
As the ICC is a conglomerate of toothless Sirs and equivalents, who have to bow down to India, Australia and the current, but SKY’d rich ‘minnow’ ECB, what good would the players unions have by any representation or affiliation? They’d best be represented by SKY/STAR/FOX? – That’s where the true power of schedules/tours/tournaments/money exists…
If anyone is still defending Ian Bell’s ODI record, what about this stat. In less than 15 games this calender year, Both Dilshan and Sangrakara (with 5 each) have scored more ODI centuries than Bell has in 160 matches.
England against 4 Full Members managed 19 wickets in total. 9 against Australia, 2 against New Zealand, 1 against Sri Lanka and 7 against Bangladesh.
Scotland have comfortably passed that tally today. They are on 28 (7 against New Zealand, 4 against Bangladesh, 9 against Sri Lanka and 8 against England) out of 40 and still have the Australians to play.
Selveys smug comments about Butker is an example of why we don’t produce Gayle’s, ABVs, Finch’s. We had a great player and we hounded him out. We don’t manage talent very well.
As for KPs return the munchkins are going to furious. Agnew was trotting out the old “he hasn’t got a county, so he has made himself unselectable” clap trap.
It’s a bit like saying Anne Bolyin only had her self to blame for her execution because she willingly walked to the scaffold.
Thebogfather – is that a surmise or have you heard it somewhere? If the latter, are you able to say where?
I’m a Hampshire fan and thought it makes sense except that we couldn’t afford it. But there are ways round that and although I’d thought Taunton more probable I’d heard he wanted a county with a Test ground.
There’s plenty of follow-up to the John Mooney story from yesterday if anyone’s interested. Brendan Taylor (who’s been signed by Notts by the way) has apologised. The journalist and his newspaper haven’t. Peter Miller on Twitter as always is a good place to look.
I just posted someone’s rather laissez-faire response to the whole thing on the previous game thread. It’s taking a while to come through. Bet you’ve already seen it though.
Yes, your post yesterday was what drew my attention to the story.
Have you seen that the journalist is banned for life by the Zimbabwe Football Association because of match-fixing allegations? And he is an ICC-accredited journalist! You couldn’t make this stuff up…..
Peter Miller has also just posted a new Geek&Friend podcast with Peter Borren.
Downton nearly gets through 24 hours without looking like a complete idiot….
“Paul Downton, managing director of England Cricket, must realise his job would be untenable if Peter Moores, whom he appointed as coach, is axed after the World Cup debacle.
Downton naively rounded on a group of cricket reporters in Wellington during his stay at the tournament to ask them to lay off the beleaguered Moores and get behind him instead”.
24 hours can be a long time in cricket. I can’t stand Charles Sale or the paper he works for but that is damning.
Simon, have you seen some of the Twitter discussion following this article? I’m thinking particularly that involving a fairly prominent freelance and a couple of bloggers…
Said freelance having a fondness for the same side as Viv Richards and one of the bloggers having a fondness for cockwombles? The other blogger being…..
Fancy the ECB thinking they could tell journalists what to write. That would never work. Cough.
No surprise. That certain blogger has shown his stripes all year. He is more than a standard KP hater and ECB apologist, he is now shown to be an utter cockwomble. If someone repeatedly abused me on Twitter, I’d block them too. Let him get back to his Pieterson dartboard.
I saw some of the blocked tweets. Lizzy ain’t a fan of mine, and as for Neil, well…. he got me cheesed off the other day and I just ignore his stuff. Never had an issue with Voice from the Stands. He’s passionate. So am I.
Being Outside Cricket 
Sanga, Dilsh…as usual…!
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So, there’s NZ vs Bangladesh coming up which theoretically has meaning (although I’m not expecting NZ to stumble.) Then there’s Pakistan vs Ireland.
Have to say I feel that the scheduling of the tail end of the tournament seems designed to amplify complaints about minnows (like England!) clogging up the works. It certainly doesn’t help that UAE play twice in the last 7 games and twice in 3 days.
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Totally agree, though Pakistan bowlers v Ireland bat could be interesting, then of course there’s the chance to see the start of the new ECB/CEW/WAITROSE PLC four year plan (version 1.0) v Afghanistan…
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I only just got around to reading the latest Mike Selvey article and the ending is pretty grim.
He lists out some young guns who could be the core of the batting for 2019 – and you can read it and feel hopeful. And then he says “however, the real problem is the bowling…” and that’s it.
That’s pretty ugly, because as bad as our batting has been, our bowling has been worse.
So to be told “the barrel is empty, the cupboard is bare” is pretty depressing.
And, as Dobell says, an indictment of Loughborough and Saker.
(Not sure why I’m putting this rant in reply to your comment TBF, it just worked out that way.)
As for IRE vs PAK – as always it feels like the big question is: “Which Pakistan team will turn up?”
If the bowlers are in the groove and the pitch isn’t a road, I have to say I think the European champions are in for a rough day.
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@Metatone
Be fair, he couldn’t very well write an article about individual bowlers without conceding that he got the Finn situation so hopelessly wrong, without at least trying to analyse David Saker’s role, or without admitting that his precious Jimmy has had a shocker.
So instead he has a little pop at Jos Buttler for not finishing the job on Monday. Much easier.
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@Arron
Yes, I thought the pop at Buttler was rather out of order.
I’ve said it before, but most of the press seem to have had a wildly erroneous assessment of both our bowling and other teams (e.g. no respect for the Bangla seamers, all sorts of nonsense about spinners used to excuse the omission of Tredwell, etc.)
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It’s a constant theme with him: his default “analysis” of defeat is the UAE 2012 redux. The lack of criticism for the bowlers during the 2013/14 Ashes – in spite of all those tail-end partnerships and an Australian 10-wicket average over *both* series of 450+ when batting first – drove me stark staring bonkers.
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Given it is the ECB the plan never really comes out of alpha stages in the past 20-years. At least for the World Cup.
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I haven’t read the latest Selfry, nor do I intend to, however, any list of a prospective team for England in four years time is a wild guess – same as the football team. If we’re talking batting then it could include 4 of (in no particular order) Taylor, Vince, Root, Ballance, Moeen, Buttler – and an as yet undefined opening pair (this applies to Tests as well). The bowling is definitely harder to choose – will Stokes recover as an all-rounder? Will Finn ever return? Where are the spinners/really quicks/rely on metronomes etc.?
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At TBF, I wasn’t looking for a prediction on the bowling – just some sort of hope.
But it seems like that our vaunted setup isn’t producing that well at the moment.
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Hope
A wicked word
More often duped and doped
By the illogical management, absurd
Whether we have the players to do
Much depends on the organisation
Choosing an on-field captain is an issue
So important in healing the fragmentation…
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http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevin-pietersen-in-talks-to-make-shock-england-return-10097746.html
I’m still the only one who thinks there’s something in this? (Look at Tom Collomosse and Lizy Ammon on Twitter as well). The Independent is the only daily to be covering it. Paul Hayward’s article in the DT has a dramatically different slant on a Pietersen return that suggests he’s been hearing things from someone.
Elsewhere, Mike Walters and Dean Wilson are must-reads in the Mirror. The Journo Awards were last night (Matt Lawson won SJA while Iain Herbert was recognised and the Guardian won next to nothing).
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There is definitely more than rumour and rattling the cage to this… btw – has anyone heard what happened to KP being on TMS commentary team for some matches, as was reported widely prior to tournament? (Got to be better than Lovejoy)
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He will be commentating from the quarter finals.
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TheBogfather – KP still starts commentary on TMS at the QF stage from what I’ve been reading.
George Dobell’s latest, while mainly focused elsewhere, does have this line tucked away:
“Whitaker, who not long ago said Pietersen would “never” play for England again, will meet the player shortly to discuss that very possibility”.
http://goo.gl/EdP39p
There is a great quote in there from Gillespie on the problem with English pitches. On the subject of Gillespie a number of outlets have headlines that Gillespie has ruled himself out of the England job – I haven’t seen one direct quote where he says that (he mentions some obstacles and his current schedule, that’s all).
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Meanwhile, there’s a match going on:
https://twitter.com/Tuohy01/status/575569404051783681
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along with 501 dismissals as WK!
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Some bad commentary genius from Haydo:
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Geoff Lemon has the whole exchange which is just comedy gold. Funniest thing I’ve read since Downton last opened his mouth. (Ramiz on Tasmania: “I wouldn’t call them simpleton, but….”).
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SIMONH – I heard an excerpt on TMS between innings, where from FiveLive last night (chat involving, I think, Gooch, Vaughan, Ash Giles and Mark Butcher) Gillespie was asked on phone whether he’d be interested – he said he’d like to become involved in ‘an’ International team in the future, but maybe not just yet… (I was half listening at about 6.30 this morning so may have it all wrong!)
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The players have had no representation on the ICC since 2013. Has any UK news outlet ever noticed this? Hardly worth mentioning is it?
http://goo.gl/hl4TwF
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As the ICC is a conglomerate of toothless Sirs and equivalents, who have to bow down to India, Australia and the current, but SKY’d rich ‘minnow’ ECB, what good would the players unions have by any representation or affiliation? They’d best be represented by SKY/STAR/FOX? – That’s where the true power of schedules/tours/tournaments/money exists…
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If anyone is still defending Ian Bell’s ODI record, what about this stat. In less than 15 games this calender year, Both Dilshan and Sangrakara (with 5 each) have scored more ODI centuries than Bell has in 160 matches.
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Phil, I would avoid page two of this thread:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/mar/10/england-cricket-world-cup-failure-paul-downton-peter-moores
Thepoetseye bot has reached the “Ash in Alien” phase of its programming.
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Reading that BTL is like nails on a chalk board. I only hope Ripley comes and takes him(her) out.
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Downton is the gift that just keeps giving:
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Back to today’s match – Josh Davey is currently the top wicket-taker in the WC with 14. And possibly even better –
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I demand an immediate update to LCL’s leaderboard to reflect that a Jock rules the CWC wicket takers!
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England against 4 Full Members managed 19 wickets in total. 9 against Australia, 2 against New Zealand, 1 against Sri Lanka and 7 against Bangladesh.
Scotland have comfortably passed that tally today. They are on 28 (7 against New Zealand, 4 against Bangladesh, 9 against Sri Lanka and 8 against England) out of 40 and still have the Australians to play.
What does that data say Mr. Moores?
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Selveys smug comments about Butker is an example of why we don’t produce Gayle’s, ABVs, Finch’s. We had a great player and we hounded him out. We don’t manage talent very well.
As for KPs return the munchkins are going to furious. Agnew was trotting out the old “he hasn’t got a county, so he has made himself unselectable” clap trap.
It’s a bit like saying Anne Bolyin only had her self to blame for her execution because she willingly walked to the scaffold.
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KP back to Hampshire, as an FU to ECB’s Test match ‘sharing’/charging/monopoly from Mr Bransgrove….you heard it here first!
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Wow!
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Thebogfather – is that a surmise or have you heard it somewhere? If the latter, are you able to say where?
I’m a Hampshire fan and thought it makes sense except that we couldn’t afford it. But there are ways round that and although I’d thought Taunton more probable I’d heard he wanted a county with a Test ground.
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@SIMONH – digging for a bit more info, but it seems legit (and as a fellow Hampshire man, reality too) – let you all know when I know!
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There’s plenty of follow-up to the John Mooney story from yesterday if anyone’s interested. Brendan Taylor (who’s been signed by Notts by the way) has apologised. The journalist and his newspaper haven’t. Peter Miller on Twitter as always is a good place to look.
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I just posted someone’s rather laissez-faire response to the whole thing on the previous game thread. It’s taking a while to come through. Bet you’ve already seen it though.
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Yes, your post yesterday was what drew my attention to the story.
Have you seen that the journalist is banned for life by the Zimbabwe Football Association because of match-fixing allegations? And he is an ICC-accredited journalist! You couldn’t make this stuff up…..
Peter Miller has also just posted a new Geek&Friend podcast with Peter Borren.
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Yes Simon, that’s all dreadful, but “why should anyone take any notice?”
“Best ignored”
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James Marsh on England:
http://www.alloutcricket.com/cricket/blogs/world-cup-2015-why-england-stank-the-place-out
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Downton nearly gets through 24 hours without looking like a complete idiot….
“Paul Downton, managing director of England Cricket, must realise his job would be untenable if Peter Moores, whom he appointed as coach, is axed after the World Cup debacle.
Downton naively rounded on a group of cricket reporters in Wellington during his stay at the tournament to ask them to lay off the beleaguered Moores and get behind him instead”.
24 hours can be a long time in cricket. I can’t stand Charles Sale or the paper he works for but that is damning.
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Simon, have you seen some of the Twitter discussion following this article? I’m thinking particularly that involving a fairly prominent freelance and a couple of bloggers…
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Link?
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link please!
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Said freelance having a fondness for the same side as Viv Richards and one of the bloggers having a fondness for cockwombles? The other blogger being…..
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Actually the freelance is female and the bloggers are being rude.
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I think we both mean legsidelizzy but are looking at different conversations?
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Would one of the bloggers have been recently sited on TFT having a go at James?
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“Sited”? FFS, “sighted” even.
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Yes, you’re definitely on the right track now.
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BTW I haven’t linked it because it’s a very long conversation and anything more than one tweet takes a while to come out of moderation.
It’s not particularly edifying anyway.
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No surprise. That certain blogger has shown his stripes all year. He is more than a standard KP hater and ECB apologist, he is now shown to be an utter cockwomble. If someone repeatedly abused me on Twitter, I’d block them too. Let him get back to his Pieterson dartboard.
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Have these tweets been deleted because I can’t see anything….
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I’m a bit of a novice on Twitter but this should be part of it:
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I saw some of the blocked tweets. Lizzy ain’t a fan of mine, and as for Neil, well…. he got me cheesed off the other day and I just ignore his stuff. Never had an issue with Voice from the Stands. He’s passionate. So am I.
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