I’m driving for much of tomorrow so I’ll do this now.
I think I may be slightly against the grain after day one, as I think the West Indies did pretty well to get it to 188-5. The ball was swinging and seaming a lot early on – it could have been easily a 50-6 outcome. And with it being such a slow, attritional surface, strokeplay is not easy – though Samuels had a rather good go late on.
The overhead conditions day two are going to be fairly crucial. If it’s more of the same, then England will find it just as hard. So clear skies are needed.
What do you all think? Happy with England after the first day, or disappointed?
LCL update. All comments on day 2 below, as usual. … cheers Vian. Saved me a job!
Being Outside Cricket 
I think the game is very balanced. Keep in mind England have to bat last on this pitch and there is some doubt it might break up.
England need to get these remaining wickets pretty cheaply tomorrow. If WI get another 100 odd England could find themselves under huge pressure. Because if they are batting last on this surface to save or win the game in a 3 test series.The implications of losing this match are huge.
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Thanks for all the updates.
Interesting post about Rashid from Lie Detector below Selvey’s latest. Sorry, but those performances and the circumstantial evidence don’t justify the prevalent narrative about his exclusion. And *I* may be against the grain here, but I do not believe Moeen Ali is already a “proven Test performer” on the basis of one good innings v SL and some dirt-cheap wickets against a mess of a side.
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Arron did you see the link below about Finn and his comments about Englands bowling coaches?
Once again Selvey has proved he knows nothing of which he writes.
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I certainly did and posted the link yesterday. Selvey appears to have championed the bullying of Finn by Saker. In a spectacularly misjudged piece he compared Finn to Hadlee without reference to how the decision to shorten the bowlers’ run up was made: Hadlee, an experienced bowler, came to the decision himself, Finn had to be persuaded and ‘resisted’ the decision:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2013/feb/21/england-steven-finn-new-zealand
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I’ll just leave this here:
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Cheers paulewart, a very interesting read.
And Slevey being his normal charming self I see. I notice about these clowns that they all fake niceness. KP is not nice, he his arrogant they claim. Yet when they are called on their weird claims they get very uppity. A bit like an uppity South African they all so despise.
Selveys vey good at projection.
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And if you liked that tweet, try this conversation, which relates directly to the Finn article and gives guess who the “credit” for the shorter run-up:
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I was just re-reading Selvey’s Cricket Couch interview re Finn, but was drawn to the KP backtracking again. You’ll never read more disingenuous guff:
SJ- True. You had written a piece in The Guardian which basically said that Andy Flower wants Kevin Pietersen out of the team. Since then Andy Flower had denied that it was ever a “me or him” sort of situation. I guess he denied it without actually denying it, the sort of management speak they seem to be good at.
MS- It might have been slightly clumsy [by me] and interpreted slightly different. Perhaps I didn’t make myself clear of what I wanted to say. When Andy Flower looks to how he can best develop the side in future, if he decides that the future of the England team can only progress if Kevin Pietersen is not in the side… In other words, the long term future of the England side has to be without Kevin Pietersen.
SJ- The actual line that you wrote is that ‘Flower is thought to believe that the future development of the team can only happen without Kevin Pietersen.’
MS- If he thinks it can only be developed without Kevin Pietersen and Paul Downton, the new managing director, or James Whitaker disagree with that and decide that we are going to go on selecting Kevin Pietersen, then that would make Andy Flower’s position difficult, wouldn’t it? That is what I meant by that, that Andy Flower will find it difficult to carry on under those circumstances simply because his vision of how the game should progress would not involve him, if that is the way he thinks. That is why I said Kevin Pietersen’s future could depend on that. That is not to suggest that it is Andy Flower against Kevin Pietersen. That’s not the case.
He has managed Kevin Pietersen for 7 years, whatever his personal feelings might be. I have no idea what they are. He has managed him for 7 years in one way or another – 4-5 years as director of the England team and a couple of years as batting coach. He has been involved all that time and got through it. You don’t suddenly get this antipathy. You see where I’m coming from? Any decision Andy Flower makes or will make will be based purely on how he sees the future of the England cricket team, not based on his personal feelings in one way or another for Kevin Pietersen.
SJ- My understanding of reading that piece from you was that Andy Flower actually believes that the team would be better off, or the team that he wants to shape going forward will be better off without Kevin Pietersen. It is already a fully formed thought in Andy Flower’s mind. That was my understanding, rather than, if he thought that…
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Apparently everything was rosy. No county v country conflict scrambling the poor lad’s brain:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/feb/26/england-steven-finn-pace-cricket-world-cup
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I’d love to introduce this Tom Hart bloke to Ian Chapell.
Chapell said…….. ” the next time a coach scores a run, takes a wicket, or makes a catch I might take notice they have a role to play……..coaches are for driving round the countryside in.”
Bu no, Mr Hart thinks Saker the coach is more important than a man who is one of England’s leading run scorers. These people are delusional.
But I bet Mr Hart bathed in the glory of KPs runs. When KP was scoring a Century at the Oval Mr dipstick wasn’t saying……. “blah, blah blah ……no great loss…..”
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I quite like Moeen, but based on what looks like a fabulous determination to succeed, and his attitude which is delightfully strong and individually minded. But proven? Definitely not. I don’t see how anyone can say that.
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Cook underperformance with the bat being bolstered by Trott
Their underperformance bolstered by a LONG batting unit
The entire unit’s batting perfomance bolstered by bowling dry
Please not wicket takers that cost runs
Formula Flower
We hope for WI to “disintegrate” as India did
The best wicket takers for England – the opposition batters….
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Scyld’s obsessing about the balls again. So much so that forgets to mention Cook’s dropping Samuel. Funny that:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/11553881/West-Indies-v-England-Marlon-Samuels-edges-towards-century-as-batsman-saves-hosts-in-Grenada.html
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I watched much of the the last session yesterday and yeh, I also thought WI looked to have been doing better than the scoreboard might suggest.
The catch that went down was obviously crucial. England’s day if it had have been held.
Haven’t read any of the papers, as this is my first port of call for cricket news — I know I can read this site happily over my coffee without getting told that Stokes was unprofessional for bowling a no ball, or whatever.
Incidentally, from a reader’s perspective I’d be quite happy for people to post the text of interesting comments elsewhere. On my browser, links to the guardian don’t go to the comments, and as we know, if the comment was especially interesting or correct it has probably already been censored. (Don’t know if the hosts want their site crammed with such text though.)
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I understand from my sources that the reason Cook dropped Samuels was solely due to the cheap balls being used. I also understand from my secret sources inside cricket that the manufacturer of those cheap balls is a company based in South Africa and owned by a certain Kevin P Pietersen.
Join the dots folks before it’s too late!
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Incidentally, during yesterday’s coverage we had the relatively rare sight of Gower talking about the game, rather than being the presenter and host. It was a reminder how good he is when giving his opinion rather than canvassing the thoughts of others.
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Whisper it, but he’s the Richie Benaud de nos jours; from the stillness when facing the camera, to his dry and unforced observations and his seamless move from elegant batsman to charming front man (via er… that awful sports quiz/comedy vehicle). Forgive the sacrilege, it’s a long held thought.
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I’m somewhat out of the loop these days, maybe outside cricket, but am curious about the pitches these tests are being played on. In days gone by West Indies’ pitches were fast and bouncy, almost marble-like, but the reports I’m reading so far say the pitches in this series are pretty slow and low. Anyone have a moment or two to explain what has happened over the years? Thank you.
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I seem to remember an interview with Everton Weekes from a few years back where he blamed it on funding (or more precisely, lack of funding). WI cricket is badly run, partly because there are so many separate countries involved, and partly because it is badly run. It is therefore short of cash and spends it on the essentials – players salaries, coaches etc. Weekes suggested that they don’t have enough to either train quality ground staff or pay for their equipment, hence the poor pitches.
Another argument could be that WI stopped producing good fast bowlers (losing talent to baseball, basketball in the US etc.) and so deliberately started preparing pitches to suit their spinners.
I suspect that it might be a combination of the two…
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Thanks, that’s interesting. I’ll try and do a little reading around. It’s been about two decades since I last read Geoff Boycott’s book “In the Fast Lane”. It was a book about England’s troubled tour of the West Indies in early 1981, but seem to remember him writing about how he prepared for that tour (details might be a little wrong, this was some time ago!). Anyway, apparently in his training sessions before the series, he’d get the fast bowlers to bowl off 16 yards in the nets. He thought that just about reproduced the speed of the pitches and bowlers he was about to face.
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And while doing some reading, thought I’d look at the fast bowlers the WI’s used in that series.
Holding, Croft and Garner played all four tests. Roberts played three and Marshall played one.
What an attack. No need for a spin bowler. Gooch, Gower, Willey and Boycott came out of that series with very decent averages given who they had to face. No one else did though.
I’ll have to re-read “In the Fast Lane” when I can find it.
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@Tom
sadly, bowling from 16 yards or so in the nets seems to be the norm nowadays – but not for a specific batsmans request a la Boycs – hence the seemingly perennial short of a length bowling currently employed by our med/fast pace attack – and no doubt for Selfies attack on Stokes for bowling a no-ball or two.
Even from the brief and laughable vids posted by @ECB_cricket showing our nets preparation, it was obvious no-one was ‘managing’ the bowlers crease for foot placement…
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/aston-villa/11553635/Aston-Villa-hero-Jack-Grealish-caught-up-in-sports-cold-war-after-midfielder-not-allowed-to-talk-after-FA-Cup-win.html
This is in the football section, but has relevance because it’s also about sport more widely. Had a brief chat with him on Twitter too, and he agreed that the press were partly at fault for being complicit in it. Also note that Jonathan is one of few journalists not to let the ECB off the hook for the “outside cricket” jibe.
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Interesting article. An interesting comment below it as well, along the lines of
“This article is exploiting Grealish & is exactly the reason why he shouldn’t speak to the media”
I kid you not
It is worrying when the press, the public etc don’t have any input from the players etc. the top brass do just want to control the message and have the first scoop (while making sure their players / management don’t put their foot in it…. cough… Downton…)
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Professional sport is showing many of the characteristics of a complacent business model just before it fails. Gerald Ratner on his “crap jewellery venture” springs to mind.
The media are not popular, and many journalists have brought this on themselves. (If you read the BTL comments only our Vian complements the article) hence the lack of concern from so called fans. But as the article makes clear it isn’t just the major media outlets. The fact so many local papers are now barred for many football clubs just show how absurd it has become.
Football is so up its own ass these days, who would want to invest in a sport where a large group of participants have no interest in participating in many of the competitions. Premiership football clubs (big ones) now regularly take the FA cup or Carling cup with disdain. No one wants to play in the Europa league. Yet they are quick to take the fans money for these matches. Same with cricket, you only to look at the last few years and the so called “outsiders,” and the way they have been treated.
I flirt with the idea of cancelling my Sky subscription. I see it has gone up again. Every year the quality seems to go down and the bullshit up. Most business would be delighted to have people with passion who care, but much of sport seems oblivious to the people who fund it.
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I cancelled my Sky Sports subscription last summer and haven’t looked back.
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How many would England be happy to chase in the 4th innings? I’d say more than 200 on this pitch, with a leggie in form lining up against you, looks hard.
Windies capable of scoring 300 second dig (also capable of getting out for 100), so I reckon we want, at least, a first innings lead of 100.
From where we are at the moment that certainly looks likely. But if they score another 100+ then the game is in the balance.
I put us quite a way ahead at the moment, particularly given the lack of Jerome Taylor, but (as always) the next session is crucial. (Windies haven’t batted well in morning sessions of this series so far)
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From where they are right now, they should get at least 220 or so, even if it goes badly. For England to get 100 lead then, they’d need 320+ in the first innings. Factor in the slowness of the pitch which makes run scoring difficult (Bell bats brilliantly on these surfaces) and that would be a seriously good effort by England. Which of course they may do.
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Hmm…I’m expecting Bishoo to bring a “visitation of demons” to England’s batsmen, followed by a hue and cry for not selecting Rashid…we’ll see by this evening no doubt?
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Barney Ronay on Flower. Highlight of the piece:
The hostile view of Flower’s success with England is that he took a team of fine, mature players approaching their peak, organised it nicely and then simply ran it into the ground.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/apr/22/england-andy-flower-barney-ronay
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Popcorn time, as they say!
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In progress.
I hope this is the lowlight:
“Not that many of those who follow England cricket will want to hear it. There is still plenty of animosity among those disenchanted by some grisly mistakes towards the end of Flower’s time, fanned in turn by Kevin Pietersen’s bizarrely saccharine public reinvention as a kind of horribly wronged cricketing Princess Diana.”
Ridiculously simplistic bollocks that can be shot to bits if you’re not already starting from the premise of “three Ashes wins, no.1 in rankings, World T20, win in India” and wish to look at the other side of the story that began two full years before he left the post.
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At last! Some missing or underplayed elements (like the Pravda-esque co-option of the media) but a massive change in the right direction.
Selvey and Bull must be furious.
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But he doesn’t really mention the co-option of the media, does he?
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No – that was in the “missing” rather than the “underplayed” category! We’ll be waiting a long time (like when hell freezes over) before the media acknowledge any fault in their own role I fear.
I got a bit over-excited seeing any article that appears to question Flower even slightly appearing in the Guardian (or anywhere). Reading it again one particularly odd thing strikes me. Ronay identifies in some detail Flower’s inability to foster new talent. But then he doesn’t make any connection to Flower’s unsuitability for his current role with England Lions or at Loughborough. He appears to believe Flower is now going to learn long-term player development even though this is something Flower has shown no great previous aptitude for or interest in.
Far from departing the temple of the true believers Ronay seems to have built an additional wing
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Someone said yesterday that Some section of the media reported Flower is getting paid £300,000 per year to effectively run the b team.
They must have money to burn at the ECB. It’s become quite a profitable gig if your face fits in.
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“the role of the new cricket director must involve a genuine engagement with life outside the bubble”
a nod towards us perhaps?
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I second Agnew’s comment “it was one underwhelming day”
It doesn’t feel right to me that England’s selection has Buttler coming in at 8. Does a team really need eight batsmen? I guess if your openers go missing, it’s an insurance but it looks fairly weird.
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Certainly shouldn’t need eight batsmen. I guess if you have lots of all rounders who merit their place for their other discipline you can just see it as a strength. South Africa used to have a ridiculously powerful batting line up because they had Kallis, Pollock, Boucher, Hall and Klusener in the side.
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An unbeaten half century for KP today. Can’t wait to read the comments from his friends in the print media
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Averaging 72 after one game!
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That recent Pringle claim that no true cricket fans wanted Pietersen back based on the people he had spoken to at “functions” might be more scientific than this:
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Jessica Taylor said it all about relevance. Dave Tickner said it all about nuance.
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In his house at R’lyeh ?
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The prison of Cthulu – part man, part dragon and part octopus…..wonder if he can bowl a bit ?
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Does anybody else find it interesting that David Lloyd, who has previously stated that he didn’t watch the IPL, is now over in India commentating?
No interest in a tournament until someone offers him a boat load of cash to be interested.
It’s another reminder of the mercenary nature of commentators, many of whom have been known to remark that they don’t watch cricket that they’re not paid to cover. Names that immediately spring to mind that fit that description: Agnew, Gower, Botham, Bumble, as mentioned.
A lot of the journos appear to be the same. Thus leading to them talking absolute bollocks about county cricket/overseas players/touring teams.
Sorry if it’s a bit off topic but it really grinds my gears.
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He said he was looking forward to it here (written last autumn): http://www1.skysports.com/cricket/news/12933/9499242/bumbles-blog-david-lloyd-on-the-ipl-accringtons-form-and-lancashires-relegation
I thought he’d been commentating on it for years. though the article suggests he hasn’t.
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To try and give it a realistic slant, since Sky brought the rights to the IPL I suspect that they were probably forced to send one of their commentators as part of the deal. Bumble as the most charismatic commentator who probably has a bit of appeal out there was the one was sent.
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Bumble was always the most enthusiastic commentator on our domestic T20, though.
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No
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So Rashid isn’t allowed to go back home because he might play in the third test. For who? Broad?
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Another top joke played by the England set up. Who thinks they have any intention of playing Rashid in the next test. Seriously? They just don’t want it to be obvious by letting him go . . .
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Why should he go home? He is a selected member of the squad and as such should stay until the end or he is otherwise released. We all know the form here, he either has to retire to get home early or start suffering from burn out or mental exhaustion or whatever it was that Trott suffered from during the last Ashes tour.
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‘kin ‘ell. Am I wrong to call Samuels a colossal idiot for getting to his hundred and then deciding to throw his wicket away? Daft.
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Not at all. That was dreadful. I believe that Windies had the chance to bat England out of the game by getting well in excess of 300 given that there has been a substantial amount of time lost already. Both Broad and Anderson are looking quite good after a leisurely start. Broad back up in the higher 80s mph.
Apparently they can go to around 11:15 tonight (our time), yet given how leisurely the over-rate tends to be and the likelihood that the light may fade before that, I suspect that further time may well be lost without rain.
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Broad got Ramdin with one that was 91.5mph apparently.
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Often Broad goes missing and seems innocuous, then he just comes to the party in a big way. Just like now as a good ball gets Holder!
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From the GU OBO after Samuels got out . . .
“The umpires were not impressed with the send-off delivered by the fieldsgentlemen.”
Why are so many of the England team such unlikeable yobbos these days? Is it simply the classic make-up-for-your-shortcomings-by-being-a-bully trait? Or are they just arseholes?
He made a hundred. He got out. Give him a polite clap and remember you’re playing cricket. And in a small way representing your country. Get over yourselves.
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They’ve been arseholes for a while. When Agnew’s moved to comment on the behaviour of England players you know something’s amiss.
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“Technology” sends us backwards again, by the sound of things.
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Hmm, Ali muffing a catch in the deep there. He bailed on it at the last second. If he commits to that properly he gets a clean catch.
For all the guff about foreshortening I think that one was pretty clearly not a clean catch. Right decision.
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Anyone got footage of the Samuels send-off?
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It’s nothing out of the ordinary. Bit of spite. Not exactly Shane Watson.
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England in “can’t finish off the tail” and “tail ender gets career best” shocker.
Definitely not a trend though. Definitely not a concern. Definitely nowt to do with David Saker.
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How’s the captaincy going?
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Swann (who may be irritating but he reads the game) was going cuckoo for several overs, demanding that ‘Cooky’ bring Moeen Ali on.
And so it came to pass, eventually…
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I rather believe Cook has a touch of constipation!!!
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Can we please start bowling at the stumps? this is hideous bowling to the last pair
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They switched over in the pub I was in to champions league nonsense. So missed this fun.
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West Indies making batting look easy at the moment. Just as i type it could be over.
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And it is over.
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Captain Fantastic finally puts the spinner on when all else has failed – and breaks the partnership almost immediately.
Never ever learns…..
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No he never learns. I don’t think he trusts spin bowlers.
His captaincy annoys me more than his batting. At least he can put up a body of work from his past to show he can bat. The idea this is the best person to lead England is idiocy. It makes a mockery of elite sport.
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Here we go again, tail enders making their test best scores against us.
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Quick break from a work event tonight to look at the score and say WTF?
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Relief with the belated change to Ali seemingly. Yep it is out but only just. Still poor for England though given what went on before.
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Well done to the west indies, all done for 299. Didn’t look likely early doors.
Time for tea then gripping stuff as Cook and Trott look to chase it down quickly knowing that rain has affected the time of the match….
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It will be interesting to see how the pitch looks for the WI bowlers.
I think it’s looking easier to bat on, but you wouldn’t be surprised if Cook got bogged down again.
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Can Cook and Trott put on more than the West Indies last pair?
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Actually looking like Cook will…
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I think Cook fell asleep during that match! He’s so out of it, its painful to watch.
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Where do you start with this?
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I have no idea. Like he and his press pals don’t blow enough smoke up Flower’s arse.
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Newman is joking right? Flower got nothing but praise and credit. It’s like when Newman and his chums claim Cook has been under huge pressure because of all the people calling for him to get the sack.
Show me, show me Mr Newman , where are all these people in the media who have been calling for Cook to go for the last 12 months? It’s only been a few nutters outside cricket. And they ain’t taken seriously.
Or are the they?
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Newman is just too pathetic for words.
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Fletcher does get the credit he deserves doesn’t he? Retrospectively at least. It felt like he stayed on a year too long but it’s not as though players had breakdowns or career ending injuries (poor Simon Jones aside) on his watch. Nor did he fire anybody. Fletcher’s remembered warmly.
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From what Nasser and Vaughn have said about him he was very much in the background. The captain was in charge during a test match.
He had this gut instinct about players to bring in. For example like Trescothick He was a good judge of talent.
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I thought that Fletcher made himself to powerful a person within the team, he was disdainful towards the press and when we lost 5 zip to Australia and then failed as usual in the world cup he was gone and the press did their best to help him on his way.
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Have to say that on the evidence of the first innings, rushing Moeen back did him no favours. He would have been better off staying with Worcs and getting some more overs in before joining the Test team.
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No Taylor, no real threat.
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Alas, that looks very much like the story.
Big scores coming for Trott and Cook, perhaps.
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Cook looking good at the moment.
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From the Guardian OBO:
” Thing is, if Cook and Trott can play themselves into confidence and form, the significance might override whatever happens in this game and series”.
Yep, there it is again – winning the Test match or even the series are secondary to bolstering the captain and maintaining the illusion that it is still 2011.
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Before they get too excited they might consider this from the live update on Cricinfo.
“West Indies’ bowlers, like England’s yesterday, will feel they missed a trick – they bowled too short and wide,”
Just the way Cook likes it.
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Selvey naturally strikes that wishful note in his opening para, before redefining chutzpah in a truly breathtaking final paragraph on Rashid.
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I heard Vaughan say “silence the critics” within one minute of getting into my car this morning. And there’s a piece on the G that uses the term “return to form”.
West Indies minus Jerome Taylor is such a useful guide to the forthcoming summer, isn’t it?
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I can only assume Vaughan’s on message at the moment.
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Hopefully he is, please not Strauss
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